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-   -   Heavens. Archbishop says not grave sin to vote pro-choice. (http://www.genmay.com/showthread.php?t=424440)

A Ho 09-05-2004 09:55 AM

Raymond Burke, Archbishop of St. Louis, has officially flip-flopped (word used to so conservative nutjobs understand) on his pro-choice voting stance.

[url]http://www.showmenews.com/2004/Sep/20040904News018.asp[/url]

All along I have said this was the truth and that the church was wrong because voting for a pro-choice candidate has nothing to do with the way you lead your personal Catholic life regarding abortion. It seems the church has seen their wrongness. In my view, there is much more at stake in this election than ridding the nation of abortion rights. Iraq, the "broken-record" good economy, Iraq, and international terrorism, of which Bush's administration has only bred more along with widespread hatred of the United States.

Dipshits such as Asmodeus and arthur pendragon questioned my adherence to the Catholic denomination's teaching. Now Asmodeus and arthur pendragon must admit that I'm right, lest they be pit hypocrites, which I'm pretty sure that that fact has been previously established. Go ahead and bring your now "out of the mainstream" arguments into this thread.

EDIT: Did I mention Iraq?

ModernDayDarwin 09-05-2004 09:58 AM

this is excellent news

LegendKiller 09-05-2004 10:03 AM

Its about time somebody spoke out. Religion should have NO factor in how you vote and the other way around.

That is one reason why I have shunned organized religion and went back to what I think god would want, not what some "holy leader" who doesn't know me thinks.

Stiler 09-05-2004 10:09 AM

[QUOTE=A Ho]Raymond Burke, Archbishop of St. Louis, has officially flip-flopped (word used to so conservative nutjobs understand) on his pro-choice voting stance.

[url]http://www.showmenews.com/2004/Sep/20040904News018.asp[/url]

All along I have said this was the truth and that the church was wrong because voting for a pro-choice candidate has nothing to do with the way you lead your personal Catholic life regarding abortion. It seems the church has seen their wrongness. In my view, there is much more at stake in this election than ridding the nation of abortion rights. Iraq, the "broken-record" good economy, Iraq, and international terrorism, of which Bush's administration has only bred more along with widespread hatred of the United States.

Dipshits such as Asmodeus and arthur pendragon questioned my adherence to the Catholic denomination's teaching. Now Asmodeus and arthur pendragon must admit that I'm right, lest they be pit hypocrites, which I'm pretty sure that that fact has been previously established. Go ahead and bring your now "out of the mainstream" arguments into this thread.

EDIT: Did I mention Iraq?[/QUOTE]

So now one guy speaks for the entire catholic church?

LegendKiller 09-05-2004 10:14 AM

[QUOTE=Stiler]So now one guy speaks for the entire catholic church?[/QUOTE]



ROFL!!!

A Ho 09-05-2004 10:19 AM

[QUOTE=LegendKiller]Its about time somebody spoke out. Religion should have NO factor in how you vote and the other way around.

That is one reason why I have shunned organized religion and went back to what I think god would want, not what some "holy leader" who doesn't know me thinks.[/QUOTE]
i've also said this in my arguments. they argue that the constitution prohibits the establishment of a state sponsored religion, not prohibiting religion from swaying your vote.

i say that when you allow religion to be the basis of laws, you force people to live by those certain religious laws, which is ultimately a backdoor way to establish a state sponsored religion.

coach 09-05-2004 10:19 AM

Since when did an archbishop represent the voice of the entire Catholic church? Last I checked, I thought it was...oh, I don't know...the Pope?

A Ho 09-05-2004 10:21 AM

[QUOTE=Stiler]So now one guy speaks for the entire catholic church?[/QUOTE]
you guys seemed think he spoke for the entire catholic church when he was saying that voting for a pro-choice candidate is a grave sin and those voters shouldn't get communion. your point?

A Ho 09-05-2004 10:22 AM

[QUOTE=coach]Since when did an archbishop represent the voice of the entire Catholic church? Last I checked, I thought it was...oh, I don't know...the Pope?[/QUOTE]
who is the person the Archbishop answers to?

coach 09-05-2004 10:23 AM

[QUOTE=A Ho]who is the person the Archbishop answers to?[/QUOTE]

Just because he answers to the pope doesn't mean each word he utters has been approved by Rome.

A Ho 09-05-2004 10:25 AM

[QUOTE=coach]Just because he answers to the pope doesn't mean each word he utters has been approved by Rome.[/QUOTE]
he and the pope both answer to the same God. why (if there is) a difference of opinion?

coach 09-05-2004 10:28 AM

[QUOTE=A Ho]he and the pope both answer to the same God. why (if there is) a difference of opinion?[/QUOTE]

Catholics believe that only the pope can speak on God's behalf on such terms that concern the entire church as a whole. Until the pope himself makes this declaration, it is just one archbishop's take on doctrine.

A Ho 09-05-2004 10:31 AM

[QUOTE=coach]Catholics believe that only the pope can speak on God's behalf on such terms that concern the entire church as a whole. Until the pope himself makes this declaration, it is just one archbishop's take on doctrine.[/QUOTE]
much like it was only one archbishop's take on doctrine when people agreed i would go to hell for voting for a candidate that happened to be pro choice.

coach 09-05-2004 10:32 AM

[QUOTE=A Ho]much like it was only one archbishop's take on doctrine when people agreed i would go to hell for voting for a candidate that happened to be pro choice.[/QUOTE]

The church never said you would go to hell for voting for a pro choice candidate :wtf:
He was out of step with the church when he said so. Unless the pope makes a statement which supports this archbishop's it is not doctrine.

LegendKiller 09-05-2004 10:38 AM

In the end it comes down to this.


1. All books of religion are logic traps. They are meant to make sure you follow a specific path in life, that path is walled with traps. The organization makes sure that your whole life is built around that book.

2. The role of the organization is to make sure they stay in power. They do this by making sure the book is written well, and their followers don't stray.

3. The way that they stay in power is to make sure they create tools to do their bidding. By ensuring the tools are in places of power they also ensure that the rest of society stays on those paths.

4. If they feel they are losing power, they beat you over the head with the book (Hard heart, no communion, going to hell...etc), trying to get you back on the path.


Fools like Arthur, et al. do nothing than spread this control around. They have been conditioned to NOT question the power, else they go to hell. It is in the church's interests to foster these extremists, lest others get out of control.


In the end, organized religion is about staying in power, absolute control, and manipulation of the common man.


Shit, look at the Vatican. You can't tell me that city was built because people just felt like it. It was built because they were told they would go to hell if they didn't built it.


LK


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