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Originally Posted by mike27
Come on, you cannot be serious here.
Put yourself in their shoes.

A story has just come out about US forces systematically abusing Iraqi prisoners. The entire planet is furious at the US, and many are calling for a full pullout (mind you, I do not support this, since pulling out would plunge the area into chaos).

Do you
a) Bide your time and let the world hate the US, and insist that they pull out of your country (which you want them to leave)?
b) Kidnap and decapitate an American and publish the video, swaying world opinion back to the US's favour and ensuring continued occupation of Iraq?

Come on now. Common sense.
A few points should be emphasized:

* The overwhelming majority of inmates at the Abu Ghriab prison were suspected of having participated in or having knowledge of attacks against U.S. soldiers. Very few of the prisoners were common street criminals.

* The photographs of prisoners being abused were taken at a cellblock known as "The Hard Site," where the worst and most dangerous were being detained.

* To date, there's no evidence whatsoever that any of the prisoners depicted in humiliating photos suffered anything more than embarrassment.

* At least two of the abused prisoners have embarked on a whirlwind tour of media interviews. And one even says he'd like to come to live in the homeland of his "torturers," the good old USA.

* None of the photos released to the media so far show anything like what has been alleged in anti-Bush administration media reports, which have ballyhooed allegations of forcible sodomy and even murder with little evidence to back the claims up.

* The murder charges: Two allegations of murder have been reported so far. The first is apparently based on an incident detailed in the Taguba report, which chronicles a prison riot during which suspected terrorists hurled rocks at U.S. military guards.

One soldier drew his weapon and fired in what appears to be an act of self defense, killing a suspected terrorist inmate. The soldier was charged with using excessive force and was dismissed with what was described in press accounts as "a less than honorable discharge."

* The other charge of murder refers to an Iraqi detainee who reportedly died after being grilled by a CIA interrogator. No further details of this case have been made public, including what type of intelligence the suspect was believed to be withholding or whether there was any provocation.

* The Taguba report also details several prison uprisings by suspected terrorists, some of whom had obtained weapons from Iraqi guards recruited by U.S. authorities. U.S. guards were repeatedly injured in these altercations, with at least one shootout in a jail cell reported. [Under these circumstances, humiliation and intimidation tactics might have been employed to keep suspected terrorist inmates too disoriented and demoralized to mount more prison attacks]

* It's worth reminding Americans about the case of Col. Alan West, who foiled a terrorist attack against his unit by extracting critical intelligence from an Iraqi detainee by firing his weapon into the air during an interrogation. Because Col. West exercised the good judgment to bend the rules of the Geneva Convention, countless U.S. soldiers in his unit - not to mention the Iraqi detainee - are alive today.

* It's also worth reminding Americans about the circumstances of the death of CIA interrogator Johnny 'Mike' Spann, the first casualty in the U.S.'s counterattack in the war on terror. Spann was killed when al Qaida prisoners jumped him and his partner during an interrogation session in Afghanistan.

* The only rape reported in any detail so far was allegedly committed by an Iraqi jail guard at Abu Ghraib who was recruited as part of the Iraqicization of the occupation. According to NBC's Jim Miklasewski, this Iraqi guard may have raped several female prisoners and perhaps even a young male detainee.

* The Taguba report includes an allegation of sodomy with a broomstick. This, along with most of the rest of the more lurid allegations being touted as gospel by the big media, is in fact based on the account of a suspected terrorist detainee. To date, no photographs have emerged to substantiate the charge, no eyewitnesses have gone public to corroborate the charge and no U.S. soldiers have confessed to committing the crime.

A lot of the report details the overcrowded conditions, the logistical problems which compounded security and many command and procedural breakdowns.
In spite of that,most of the MPs acted appropriately during many prison riots, prison escapes and when assaulted by the detainees-many of whom were " hardened criminals. "

Here's some things from the Taguba Report, that no one talks about :

(U) 9 June 03- Riot and shootings of five detainees at Camp Cropper. ... Several detainees allegedly rioted after a detainee was subdued by MPs ....
after STRIKING A GUARD in compound B of Camp Cropper. A 15-6 investigation by ...
concluded that a detainee had acted up and HIT AN MP. After being subdued,
one of the MPs took off his DCU top and flexed his muscles to the detainees,
which further escalated the riot.

The MPs were overwhelmed and the guards fired lethal rounds
whereby 5 detainees were wounded.

(U) 12 June 03- ( Camp Cropper )Several detainees allegedly made their escape in the nighttime hours prior to 0300. Battalion search team recaptured detainee .. and detainee ..was shot and killed by a Soldier during the recapture process.
Contributing factors were overcrowding, poor lighting, and THE NATURE OF THE HARDENED CRIMINAL DETAINEES at that location.
It is of particular note that the command was informed at least 24 hours in advance of the upcoming escape attempt
and started doing amplified announcements in Arabic stating the camp rules.

The investigation pointed out that rules and guidelines were not posted in the camps in the detainees’ native languages.

13 June 03- .... At about 1600 the same day, 30-40 detainees RIOTED and PELTED THREE INTERIOR MPS WITH ROCKS.

ONE GUARD WAS INJURED and the tower guards fired lethal rounds at the rioters injuring 7 and killing 1 detainee.

(U) 24 November 03- Several detainees allegedly began to riot at about 1300 in all of the compounds at the Ganci encampment.
This resulted in the shooting deaths of 3 detainees, 9 wounded detainees,
investigation ...concluded that the detainees rioted in protest of their living conditions, that the riot turned violent, the use of non-lethal forc
e was ineffective, ... the use of deadly force was authorized.

24 November 03- A detainee allegedly had a pistol in his cell and around 1830 an extraction team shot him with less than lethal and lethal rounds in the process of recovering the weapon.
investigation concluded that one of the detainees in tier 1A of the Hard Site had gotten a pistol and a couple of knives from an Iraqi Guard working in the encampment.

Immediately upon receipt of this information, an ad-hoc extraction team consisting of MP and MI personnel conducted what they called a routine cell search,
which resulted IN THE SHOOTING OF AN MP
and the detainee.
Contributing factors were a corrupt Iraqi Guard,...

13 December 03- Several detainees allegedly got into a detainee-on-detainee fight around 1030 in Compound 8 of the Ganci encampment, Abu Ghraib...
the MPs used a non-lethal crowd-dispersing round to break up the fight, which was successful.

13 December 03- Several detainees allegedly got into a detainee-on-detainee fight around 1120 in Compound 2 of the Ganci encampment, Abu Ghraib.
...MPs used two non-lethal shots to disperse the crowd, which was successful.

13 December 03- Approximately 30-40 detainees allegedly got into a detainee-on-detainee fight around 1642 in Compound 3 of the Ganci encampment, Abu Ghraib compound
and the MPs used a non-lethal crowd-dispersing round to break up the fight, which was successful.

17 December 03-Several detainees allegedly ASSAULTED AN MP at 1459 inside the Ganci Encampment, Abu Ghraib (BCCF).

One of the allegations-please prepare yourselves, was that someone wrote " I'm a Rapist " on the leg of a detainee who had raped a 15 yr old.
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Old 05-13-2004, 07:34 PM ViriiK is offline