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pyramid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damo
it really has nothing to do with addiction, proving its not as addictive as other substances physiologically means nothing and doesnt mean people arent going to abuse the drug when given the opportunity. it's more to do with what it does to people's mental states and brain chemistry with prolonged use
What? It's addictive potential is exactly what you are talking about when you are talking about the likelyhood of people becoming addicted to and abusing it.

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/addictiv.htm

Quote:
you don't see the effects of it that much because you're either not exposed to fucked up potheads who end up with brain chemical problems or you've never been a pothead yourself and feel what it does to you after a while. this issue is not as prevalent in the states because of how hard weed is cracked down upon and how much of a closet issue it is for most people . in canada where high grade cannabis is widely available and easy to abuse it is a much bigger problem.
OK, lets clarify a few things here. I have plenty of personal experience in drug culture and with people in drug culture. I have plenty of personal experience with weed and with potheads. Weed in canada is not significantly more potent or prevailent than weed in the United states and neither are problems associated with it's use. There are almost as many people who will have smoked weed this year alone in the united states as there are people in all of canada. Unless everyone in canada is toking up you guys are not burning more weed than we are. I'd be interested in seeing some numbers on percapita use in canada but I'm betting the numbers will be pretty similar to our own.

There is little evidence to even suggest that increased potency is more dangerous. According to some studies it may even be more healthy as there seems to be less tar in higher potency cannabis and you need to smoke less of it to get the desired effect. Wine is not more addictive than beer, potent weed is no more addictive than generic commercial grade.

Quote:
its easy to smoke up once in a while and say oh yeah this shits great, it should be legal for me to purchase it and everyone should be doing it, but really if you were able to buy pot whenever you wanted you would either turn into a pothead that needed medical intervention/treatment or quit smoking all together because of how sick you'll get of how it makes you feel after a while and how much money you're blowing on it.
I can buy pot right now, it is available in every town in north america. I can smoke all the weed I can afford as it is, as can many many people. There is no shortage of weed thanks to it's prohibited status or the fact that 775,000 people were arrested on marijuana charges alone last year in the states. It is still everywhere.

If it were legal I would be growing it myself in my garden so it wouldn't cost me anything. You could grow it right now if you weren't worried about the government stealing your home and putting you in federal prison on drug manufacture and intent to distribute charges (even if you just grow for yourself). If I did too much and needed treatment I could voluntarily seek it instead of being arrested and forced into ineffective treatment by the government. There is no benefit to keeping it illegal unless you like seeing people go to jail for no good reason.

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if it were legalized costs for people going to psychiatrists and psych wards would blow up like hiroshima and people who made a profit off of selling dope would turn to harder drug dealing to turn a profit.
How so? it is already the third most used drug in the world. are you saying it would become the most used drug in the world? Also what psych problems are you talking about? The ones that have yet to be conclusively linked to it? Hundreds of millions of people smoke weed right now worldwide (160,000,000 estimated). Weed is not some rare phenomenom here in the western hemisphere that we can't let get out of control. Weed has been used the world over for thousands of years by everyone from peasants to royalty without significant problems. If there were going to be massive problems because of weed then they would be happening right now.

Also most of the people who deal pot do it so that they can have free smoke. Most weed dealers have a legitimate job where they make more money than they do dealing weed (70%+ IIRC). See Freakanomics. The likelyhood that all weed dealers will start selling something more addictive if weed is legalized is not that great at all since they are usually selling weed so they can have cheaper/free weed for themselves. If we make weed legal and cheap then there would be no reason for them to sell weed anymore.

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it will NEVER be legalized in the states, deal with it.
Says you. It was legal for thousands of years without issue. It was legal in the united states until the early 1900s when various states made it illegal as a way to harrass unwanted mexicans in the southern states. It was not made illegal because of problems actually associated with it but rather because of the people associated with it (mexicans) and the prevailing poverty(depression), racism and willingness to fall for scare tactics at the time. When enough public outcry was drummed up using false news stories then marijuana was made illegal by people who had no idea what it was or what it was capable of based on outright lies and ignorance. Read the actual debate that occured in congress, if you can call it debate, and tell me that was an informed decision.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/History/whiteb1.htm

Quote:
i love smoking once in a while and i agree penalties for it in some places are way out of line, but I would not be happy for kids to be able to get their hands on it easily and for it to be accepted into mainstream society.
Kids can get their hands on it easily right now. Please see the monitoring the future survey where every year since 1975, 85%+ of highschool seniors reported having easy access to marijuana and half of them have already tried it. Thank you.

http://www.monitoringthefuture.org/

Also, making it legal for adults will not make it any easier for kids to get. First of all kids are buying it off one of their friends right now, probably right in their school. Second, legitimate shops ask for ID, dealers do not. Kids already report that it is easier to get weed than alcohol, why? because you need ID to buy alcohol at the vast majority of the places you can buy it. The vast majority of illicit dealers do not care about ID.

Also keeping weed illegal makes your kids more likely to be introduced to harder drugs as that is the actuall workings of the gateway theory. Dealers who sell weed often sell other drugs as well and thusly weed introduces you to harder and more dangerous drugs. In reality most people have their first drug experience with alcohol or tobacco, usually before they are legally of age to do so. Strange you never hear about that being a gateway...

Quote:
for more discussion on the effects of prolonged cannabis use check out http://genmay.com/showthread.php?t=600717
Perhaps you missed my post in that thread. The findings didn't seem to be as conclusive as the story made it seem. Also, that was dealing with heavy (daily) adolescent use during brain develpment, not all prolonged use or adult use. The problem is specifically with an area of the brain that is developing in adolescence and weed potentially interfering with that development. That doesn't mean that weed = schizophrenia in everyone. That means that there might be a problem but we aren't even sure of that yet.

This just happens to be the latest in a long list of things that, one by one, have been proven false or purposefully misleading or exagerated when it comes to marijuana. I am not saying it is not possible, I just tend to take these things with a grain of salt considering the things you used to be able to get away with saying about marijuana without anyone calling you on it. Just for fun let's have a quick recap:

1937: Marijuana gives you the strength of ten men and makes you invulnerable to bullets as it turns you into a crazed killing and raping machine. Especially if you are mexican or black.
1940s: Hemp for victory, smoking weed still bad.
1950s: Marijuana this week, shooting heroin into your eyeballs next week.
1960s: Marijuana this week, shooting heroin into your eyeballs next week, and it's all a commie plot.
1970s: Smoking marijuana leads to interracial coupling, counterculture and unpatriotic behavior, also heroin and burning draft cards. Interestingly enough vietnam is a gateway to marijuana and herion use for many soldiers.
1980s: Just say no... down with dope, up with hope... mmm mmm crack.
1990s: It makes you stupid and lazy and more likely to do crack.
2000: Don't play with the loaded weapon your father left out on his desk while taking bong rips or you might shoot your friend in the head. Also, we're still playing that gateway theory card.
2002: If you smoke weed then you support terrorists.
2004: If you smoke weed then you will not pay attention to the child you are babysitting and they will drown in a pool. Or you will forget to pick up your little brother or lose your little sister at a fair.
2005: If you smoke weed then you are under the influence of your friends and that is bad because you should only be under the influence of your government and their terrible anti-drug ads.

Also please see my repeated posts where I say that I am absolutely not for kids using drugs. I am absolutely for responsible adults not going to jail for what they choose to put into their bodies. I am not for kids doing drugs even if I would argue that the penalties for doing so should not be so severe.

For more discussion of prolonged cannabis use please see:
http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/...marijuana.html
http://www.pyramid-tech.net/images/drugwar/cannabis.pdf
http://www.pyramid-tech.net/images/d...nabis-comm.pdf

I don't like to fit facts to my agenda and when I see myself trying to do it I will stop myself because I know that it doesn't help my argument to pull stuff out my ass or to be wrong. I may make mistakes here and there and maybe not list every caveat but I try to be as accurate as possible. I do not say that weed is harmless and that it's healthy for everyone to smoke weed all day long. I do not say that no one has problems with or related to their weed use. But I will still argue that it should be legal despite it's potential harms as the most harm seems to actually be caused by it's illegality because if you objectively compare weed to any number of other perfectly legal but potentially dangerous substances or activities then it should be very hard to justify arresting anyone for the potential harm of weed. Weed is just another area for people to focus on the wrong things. Worried about your teenager? They are more likely to die from autoerotic asphyxiation than weed but you aren't likely see stupid commercials touting the dangers of strangling yourself while masturbating replacing the ones that warn you about the dangers of smoking weed any time soon.
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Last edited by pyramid; 12-29-2005 at 06:10 PM..
Old 12-29-2005, 02:48 PM pyramid is offline  
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