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Atma Weapon
 
Korean War v. Vietnam War

Having lived in Korea for almost a year now I've thought a great deal about how this country serves as perfect example when arguing in favor of US intervention. I think most Americans feel that every war the US has started/intervened in the past century with the exception of WW2 and Korea has been a blunder, but does it make one a hypocrite to say that Vietnam was a huge mistake and Korea was justified? While both are Cold War conflicts, with US intevention (backed by coalitions) following the invasion of Soviet-backed communist forces of Western-backed capitalist countries, there are striking differences between the two, mainly:

- Intervention in Korea was authorized by the UN

- Intevention in Vietnam was based on a lie (Gulf of Tonkin)

- The French had already had their asses handed to them in Vietnam during the First Indochina War. This alone showed the strength and dedication of Ho Chi Minh's forces and should've been reason enough for the US not to intervene in Vietnam. There was no historical precedent for intervention in Korea.

Keep in mind my information is based on what I've learned from the brief coverage of these wars in my American history courses and Wikipedia, so I'm sure there's a lot I'm missing. Discuss.
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:26 AM Atma Weapon is offline  
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Straw Man
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Since both are colonial fuckups that have an extensive history of being fucked over by the europeans, americans, japanese and chinese, in that perspective yeah I guess it's safe to say Korea was a success, at least from an american point of view. By "success" I mean the objective being keeping the Korea's separated as was dictated without the opinion of ...well, the korean people.

Certainly Vietnam would be considered a success if it weren't for the outcome which was a straight up defeat, again from an american point of view.
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Old 04-27-2011, 04:01 AM Straw Man is offline  
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Originally Posted by RuHo View Post
Since both are colonial fuckups that have an extensive history of being fucked over by the europeans, americans, japanese and chinese, in that perspective yeah I guess it's safe to say Korea was a success, at least from an american point of view. By "success" I mean the objective being keeping the Korea's separated as was dictated without the opinion of ...well, the korean people.

Certainly Vietnam would be considered a success if it weren't for the outcome which was a straight up defeat, again from an american point of view.

Go back to Finland, or whatever eurofag country it is you crawled out of. Fucking pussy.
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:55 AM BlisterDick is offline  
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IcW@teR
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dude, seriously, start here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar..._United_States and keep going. i mean you didn't even mention ww1
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Old 04-27-2011, 08:37 AM IcW@teR is offline  
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Originally Posted by Atma Weapon View Post

- The French had already had their asses handed to them in Vietnam during the First Indochina War. This alone showed the strength and dedication of Ho Chi Minh's forces and should've been reason enough for the US not to intervene in Vietnam..

Yeah but the french always get their asses handed to them that is nothing new, what do you expect they were still weak after WW2 they just wanted their territory back but weren't strong enough to do it.
Old 04-27-2011, 08:41 AM TUT RAGE!!! is offline  
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TUT RAGE!!!
 
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dude, seriously, start here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar..._United_States and keep going. i mean you didn't even mention ww1

No one cares about ww1, especially since US had limited involvement only towards the end.
Old 04-27-2011, 08:42 AM TUT RAGE!!! is offline  
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It would be worth noting that Vietnam was not an invasion of a soviet-backed communist force of a western-backed capitalist country, but rather a civil war in a single country, with two sides backed by two different countries. If anything, it was an invasion by US military.

Also worth noting that many of the issues people (especially the international community) have with Vietnam are less about the fact that the US went in there, and more about the use of chemical weapons, intentional starvation, and various other military crimes (not judged as such by international courts for a variety of reasons) committed by the US.

This is not to say that US committed little military crimes during the Korean war, of course. But those in Vietnam were on a significantly larger scale.

So my point is that your argument mentioned a little (far from all) about the causes of going INTO the war, but mentioned nothing about the way the war was conducted. That alone, I would say, is probably more of an issue, than the going there in the first place.
Old 04-27-2011, 08:51 AM teh_rapist is offline  
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By "success" I mean the objective being keeping the Korea's separated as was dictated without the opinion of ...well, the korean people.

The Northern side was not exactly collecting signatures for a petition either.

I imagine that if you polled Koreans today, they would much prefer a divided Korea over living under the Communist regime. Many of them would prefer a divided Korea over a unified democratic Korea too, but that's another story.
Old 04-27-2011, 08:57 AM Gibonius is offline  
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Originally Posted by teh_rapist View Post
It would be worth noting that Vietnam was not an invasion of a soviet-backed communist force of a western-backed capitalist country, but rather a civil war in a single country, with two sides backed by two different countries. If anything, it was an invasion by US military.

Also worth noting that many of the issues people (especially the international community) have with Vietnam are less about the fact that the US went in there, and more about the use of chemical weapons, intentional starvation, and various other military crimes (not judged as such by international courts for a variety of reasons) committed by the US.

This is not to say that US committed little military crimes during the Korean war, of course. But those in Vietnam were on a significantly larger scale.

So my point is that your argument mentioned a little (far from all) about the causes of going INTO the war, but mentioned nothing about the way the war was conducted. That alone, I would say, is probably more of an issue, than the going there in the first place.

No one is gonna cry about some gook civilians getting smoked we didn't care.
Even when the My Lai massacre broke news only one soldier was actually convicted and the people were calling him a hero and demanding his release lol.
Old 04-27-2011, 08:58 AM TUT RAGE!!! is offline  
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I'm not sure where this came from. No one said this, or did I miss it?

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Originally Posted by Atma Weapon View Post
Having lived in Korea for almost a year now I've thought a great deal about how this country serves as perfect example when arguing in favor of US intervention. I think most Americans feel that every war the US has started/intervened in the past century with the exception of WW2 and Korea has been a blunder, but does it make one a hypocrite to say that Vietnam was a huge mistake and Korea was justified? While both are Cold War conflicts, with US intevention (backed by coalitions) following the invasion of Soviet-backed communist forces of Western-backed capitalist countries, there are striking differences between the two, mainly:

- Intervention in Korea was authorized by the UN

- Intevention in Vietnam was based on a lie (Gulf of Tonkin)

- The French had already had their asses handed to them in Vietnam during the First Indochina War. This alone showed the strength and dedication of Ho Chi Minh's forces and should've been reason enough for the US not to intervene in Vietnam. There was no historical precedent for intervention in Korea.

Keep in mind my information is based on what I've learned from the brief coverage of these wars in my American history courses and Wikipedia, so I'm sure there's a lot I'm missing. Discuss.

.
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Old 04-27-2011, 11:49 AM Sup is offline  
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The French are really fucking pussies. They had to resort to kidnapping a rebel's mother to win.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguyen_Trung_Truc#Death

"In mid-1868, Truc successfully attacked the French fortress at Kien Giang in Rach Gia, killing the French-installed provincial chief and 30 of the opposition troops. In order to capture his strongholds and regain the citadel, the French took his mother hostage. French forces then regained control of the fort and captured Truc, executing him on October 27, 1868."

He had to turn himself in to the French in exchange for the safety of his mother. There's a statue of him in his home region of Vietnam (Kien Giang)
Old 04-28-2011, 10:43 AM Butthole Eliminator is offline  
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Straw Man
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Go back to Finland, or whatever eurofag country it is you crawled out of. Fucking pussy.

You have the fucking musical taste of a 13-year old and now you cry on the internet over getting told just that


fag
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:10 PM Straw Man is offline  
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Straw Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
The Northern side was not exactly collecting signatures for a petition either.

I imagine that if you polled Koreans today, they would much prefer a divided Korea over living under the Communist regime. Many of them would prefer a divided Korea over a unified democratic Korea too, but that's another story.
What I meant by that was that in the WW2 aftermath, Korea was divided and that was done without the consent of the koreans. I imagine if you polled koreans in 1944 they'd find the thought of a divided korea to be fucking absurd and a pretty fucking stupid idea to begin with.
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:15 PM Straw Man is offline  
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