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pyramid
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
They sure do when they're rounded up and bussed to the polling places and then given stuff free when they're done.

why would poor people take buses to the polling station?


BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE CARS.


It's a conspiracy.
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Old 04-26-2011, 09:31 PM pyramid is offline  
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I never said the poor have a disproportionate political sway. What I said is they don't have a vested interest in gov't fiscal policy because they're not funding the system. They're collecting from the system. They will not vote for people who are going to end their handouts. On top of that, there is an orchestrated effort by some of the people in the gov't to push the amount of people collecting from the system to >50% so they're guaranteed perpetual power by creating a voting majority that is a subservient underclass of citizens who rely on the gov't to provide for them.

That was the point of the Heinlein's quote. People won't vote in the country's best interest, but in their own best interest and that will destroy a country. It's not an absurd argument. The US has a very serious spending problem. Spending across the board needs to be cut significantly, but the politicians won't seriously touch spending because they all fear for their re-election because cutting spending and reducing social programs is political suicide.
You think the corporations care about the good of the country right now? They're just as self interested, and we have pretty direct evidence of what happens when you let business interests dominate politics for 30 years.
Old 04-26-2011, 10:34 PM Gibonius is offline  
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Forever Domon
 
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Originally Posted by pyramid View Post
why would poor people take buses to the polling station?


BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE CARS.


It's a conspiracy.
nah, they have 50k dollar trucks which theyre about to default on while living with their 8 illegitimate kids in a single-wide.
Old 04-26-2011, 10:35 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
I never said the poor have a disproportionate political sway. What I said is they don't have a vested interest in gov't fiscal policy because they're not funding the system. They're collecting from the system. They will not vote for people who are going to end their handouts. On top of that, there is an orchestrated effort by some of the people in the gov't to push the amount of people collecting from the system to >50% so they're guaranteed perpetual power by creating a voting majority that is a subservient underclass of citizens who rely on the gov't to provide for them.
The working class is the only source of funding for the system. The accumulation of their labour is what's actually being taxed when the wealthy are taxed. The top tax brackets in the US are almost exclusively owners of large businesses, manipulators of capital, or inherited wealth. The US state is run mostly for their benefit with the welfare state as a pacifier for the rest of us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
That was the point of the Heinlein's quote. People won't vote in the country's best interest, but in their own best interest and that will destroy a country. It's not an absurd argument. The US has a very serious spending problem. Spending across the board needs to be cut significantly, but the politicians won't seriously touch spending because they all fear for their re-election because cutting spending and reducing social programs is political suicide.
By far the largest recent expenditures in the US have been on preserving the capitalist status quo and stuffing as much money into the MIC as possible. The current "budget crisis" was created almost entirely by capitalist institutions and is now being used as a cudgel to enact "austerity programs" (the demolition of the welfare state and government employment), class war that many of its victims now cheer on as if they were on the winning side. Cutting spending is very popular with the forces that actually control the government and it's already being enacted. That the majority of Americans oppose dismantling the welfare state does not at all equate to political suicide.
Old 04-26-2011, 11:15 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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#34  

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i hate our tax system, Wish it was 5 pages max.

every year I file it gets just a little more complicated. This year I had to do an amended return. Please tell my why in 2011 I can only mail in an amended return instead of efile again?
Old 04-27-2011, 12:07 AM Ruffy is offline  
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Originally Posted by Forever Domon View Post
nah, they have 50k dollar trucks which theyre about to default on while living with their 8 illegitimate kids in a single-wide.

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Old 04-27-2011, 01:12 AM pyramid is offline  
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Originally Posted by Patriotic Eagle View Post
The working class is the only source of funding for the system. The accumulation of their labour is what's actually being taxed when the wealthy are taxed. The top tax brackets in the US are almost exclusively owners of large businesses, manipulators of capital, or inherited wealth. The US state is run mostly for their benefit with the welfare state as a pacifier for the rest of us.

By far the largest recent expenditures in the US have been on preserving the capitalist status quo and stuffing as much money into the MIC as possible. The current "budget crisis" was created almost entirely by capitalist institutions and is now being used as a cudgel to enact "austerity programs" (the demolition of the welfare state and government employment), class war that many of its victims now cheer on as if they were on the winning side. Cutting spending is very popular with the forces that actually control the government and it's already being enacted. That the majority of Americans oppose dismantling the welfare state does not at all equate to political suicide.

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Old 04-27-2011, 01:16 AM pyramid is offline  
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Old 04-28-2011, 07:37 PM pyramid is offline  
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Gotta have money to play the game.
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Old 04-29-2011, 01:44 AM tegandje is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyramid
There is no orchestrated effort to push people onto public assistance by those in the government.
I happen to know a former NYC social worker. She describes "most of her job" as getting her clients onto all the public assistance programs they qualified for.

It's not a "conspiracy," just a bureaucracy, humming right along in a brain-dead 20th century ethics.

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I'd just as soon huff paint thinner and watch Sesame Street, yes.

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You know who pushes people onto public assistance?
These assholes. Personal experience, again.
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Old 05-18-2011, 09:00 AM möbiustrip is offline  
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Originally Posted by Communist Shitbird
The current "budget crisis" was created almost entirely by capitalist institutions
The term you're after is "mercantilist." Nominally private institutions lobbying for favors, protection, and treasury payola is the normal outcome in a mixed economy -- there's competition at work.

Your benevolent government could hold any of the bad actors responsible, right down to the bone, in a heartbeat.

As demonstrated in its complete absence of character, your benevolent government has other priorities.

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and is now being used as a cudgel to enact "austerity programs"
Your propaganda could stand to acknowledge the "debt ceiling" all over the news, again.

"Austerity" is the cessation of the government blowing unimaginable shit-tons of money to try and paste over economic depression. (really: deficits running 10% of GDP)

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class war that many of its victims now cheer on as if they were on the winning side
So political goons have claimed supreme powers that just make your head spin, paid interest for the privilege, and you insist the fuckers steal more (say, from savings) to debt-finance your "class war?"

Where do you think the money comes from? Santa Claus?

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Cutting spending is very popular with the forces that actually control the government
I could laugh right out loud at this , but if you have a puppet show in there, I'll wait. Plenty of paint thinner.
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Old 05-18-2011, 10:29 AM möbiustrip is offline  
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it's simply the result of piecemeal addition of new tax code
Old 05-18-2011, 10:47 AM meyou is offline  
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Old 05-18-2011, 07:51 PM DopefishLives is offline  
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Originally Posted by möbiustrip View Post
The term you're after is "mercantilist." Nominally private institutions lobbying for favors, protection, and treasury payola is the normal outcome in a mixed economy -- there's competition at work.
That's the normal outcome in any capitalist system, capital always works to ensure its own supremacy, as demonstrated by all real world examples both currently existing and historically. To think otherwise is capitalist utopianism.

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Your benevolent government could hold any of the bad actors responsible, right down to the bone, in a heartbeat.

As demonstrated in its complete absence of character, your benevolent government has other priorities.
The government is controlled and run by capitalists, so why would anyone expect otherwise?

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Originally Posted by möbiustrip View Post
Your propaganda could stand to acknowledge the "debt ceiling" all over the news, again.

"Austerity" is the cessation of the government blowing unimaginable shit-tons of money to try and paste over economic depression. (really: deficits running 10% of GDP)
Rising government debt is not by itself indicative of rising spending, besides the stimulus and TARP (which were both designed to stabilize and support the capitalist system) the government has constantly been cutting or seeking to cut spending on public expenditures as much as possible.

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So political goons have claimed supreme powers that just make your head spin, paid interest for the privilege,
What does that trash have to do with whats being discussed?


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Originally Posted by möbiustrip View Post
and you insist the fuckers steal more (say, from savings) to debt-finance your "class war?"

Where do you think the money comes from? Santa Claus?
That money is dependent on Ireland embracing a program of austerity (and likewise Greece, Portugal, and Spain), that only supports my point? The entire history of the IMF has revolved around providing "financially unstable" nations with loans in exchange with embracing a "capitalist" ethos (privatization and austerity programs).

Why are you referring to it as my "class war" when the IMF and their ilk are clearly pro capitalist?

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I could laugh right out loud at this , but if you have a puppet show in there, I'll wait. Plenty of paint thinner.
Did you pay morlock to write this tidbit for you? Regardless there have been huge cuts in spending on education, pensions, public institutions, public workers, public infrastructure, by almost all States as well as significant cuts at the federal level.
Old 06-02-2011, 04:23 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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