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[H]ard|On
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Originally Posted by Zangmonkey View Post
The fine isn't small.
I used to write software for construction companies, including payroll tracking software.

Every new hire gets verified with the federal system.
The catch is that you are allowed to hire after you've submitted but you don't have to wait for result.

In a significant number of cases there was never any response from the program. In other cases it looked like the system automatically approved.

More than once, payroll clerks discovered multiple people with the same SSN.

Obama raised the fine actually. One of the little things he did that nobody gives credit for.

Still based on this MSNBC thing I saw it's pocket change for guys like Sam Walton. Even with the increased fine it is still something like 10x more lucrative for places to hire illegals without benefits and occasionally get that slap on the wrist.

Obama also raised the frequency of audits and number of people doing them, but that's like going from 1 to 2 on a scale of 10.
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Old 10-17-2011, 04:33 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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Oh, it can be done. My cousin went to school for education and racked up $100k in debt. Now she whines that she can't afford to buy a house because she's crippled by her student loans. Everyone but her parents told her what she was doing was stupid. "Ggo to a cheaper school, no one will care when you get out that you want to teach grade school with a prestigious degree from school x," the rest of us said. She didn't listen....

That sure sounds like a private school to me. I would really love to see the breakdown of how anybody could rack up 100k in debt at an in-state public school. Even if you went to grad school, it still wouldn't be 100k or even close.
Old 10-17-2011, 06:07 PM Gibonius is offline  
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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
That sure sounds like a private school to me. I would really love to see the breakdown of how anybody could rack up 100k in debt at an in-state public school. Even if you went to grad school, it still wouldn't be 100k or even close.

many schools have 20k tuitions per year. that's 80 right there, add some living expenses on top of that and while it should still be under 100k if you consider summer internships - grad school will put you over within a semester (if you are paying for it of course).
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Old 10-17-2011, 06:10 PM teh_rapist is offline  
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Impulse Rxn
 
Giving aid to legal children of illegal immigrants is a no-brainer. Giving aid to illegal immigrants is dumb, and here's why:

If a student graduates college but remains an illegal immigrant (doesn't get himself on the path to citizenship,) AND can't find a job that will sponsor him for immigration (which should be easier than his less educated counterparts,) he is faced with a dilemma- most white collar jobs for which a degree would be useful (and access to these jobs-- therefore bringing these populations out of the lower rungs of society- would be the whole reason to give them these benefits in the first place)- are going to have some kind of citizenship check at some point.
Sure, you can fly under the radar if you're waiting tables or picking corn, but try sitting for a CFA after you get your BS in Accounting from UCal without citizenship or a green card. So what do they do? Go home, or go back to their own country with a degree that the US paid the bulk for. Again- this is assuming they have a hard time finding jobs that will sponsor them for citizenship, but if it's a general entry-level job that requires (for god knows what reason) a bachelors (think secretarial or "sales management") why would they go through the trouble of sponsoring an illegal when hordes of unemployed legal grads are in the pool?


Cliffs:
Illegal goes to college on aid, can't get a job because he's still illegal.
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Old 10-17-2011, 06:14 PM Impulse Rxn is offline  
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Originally Posted by teh_rapist View Post
many schools have 20k tuitions per year. that's 80 right there, add some living expenses on top of that and while it should still be under 100k if you consider summer internships - grad school will put you over within a semester (if you are paying for it of course).

There are many in-state schools that are over 20k. I went to UNC Cheaper OUT OF STATE than it would've cost me to go to UMass. UVM is even more expensive if I'm not mistaken
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Old 10-17-2011, 06:14 PM Impulse Rxn is offline  
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many schools have 20k tuitions per year. that's 80 right there, add some living expenses on top of that and while it should still be under 100k if you consider summer internships - grad school will put you over within a semester (if you are paying for it of course).

Again, where? US News says that Penn State is the most expensive at 13k/year as of 2011.
Old 10-17-2011, 06:20 PM Gibonius is offline  
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Again, where? US News says that Penn State is the most expensive at 13k/year as of 2011.

you are talking in-state i am assuming. because, for instance, michigan is just over 20k for out-of-state.
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Old 10-17-2011, 06:27 PM teh_rapist is offline  
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you are talking in-state i am assuming. because, for instance, michigan is just over 20k for out-of-state.

I said in-state explicitly, yes. Complaining about out of state tuition is rather pointless, especially in the context of this thread.
Old 10-17-2011, 06:31 PM Gibonius is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
I said in-state explicitly, yes. Complaining about out of state tuition is rather pointless, especially in the context of this thread.

Complaining about high tuition in general is pointless without addressing the federal subsidy on student debt which is directly responsible for driving it up.
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Old 10-17-2011, 06:35 PM Zangmonkey is offline  
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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
I said in-state explicitly, yes. Complaining about out of state tuition is rather pointless, especially in the context of this thread.

complaining about anything is usually completely pointless. i missed the "in-" in your post, read it as "state public school". your original post was:
"How do you end up 100k in debt going to a state school?"
which doesn't really imply anything about in-state. and let's not forget that if u are from, say, new hampshire, it's pretty much impossible to get good education unless you go out of state (even if you do go to another state school).

but actually if you include grad school, even in-state rates can stack up together with undergrad and living expenses to exceed 100k, if you get absolutely no financial aid.
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Old 10-17-2011, 06:38 PM teh_rapist is offline  
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Originally Posted by teh_rapist View Post
complaining about anything is usually completely pointless. i missed the "in-" in your post, read it as "state public school". your original post was:
"How do you end up 100k in debt going to a state school?"
which doesn't really imply anything about in-state. and let's not forget that if u are from, say, new hampshire, it's pretty much impossible to get good education unless you go out of state (even if you do go to another state school).

but actually if you include grad school, even in-state rates can stack up together with undergrad and living expenses to exceed 100k, if you get absolutely no financial aid.

Arguing the cost of the school is rather pointless in the context of this thread as well, so is the immigration policy of the U.S. I brought up the cost to reiterate the fact that there are US citizens who should be getting this aid instead of illegals. If you bitching about the US not allowing enough people in to this country, maybe it's because we can't support all these people. If the government decides that they are going to allow 1 million people into the country, then 1 million it is. [You cant buy a fucking lotto ticket and then complain to the lotto board for not winning. Consequently, you can't protest them and make them give you a winning. And if you broke into their safe and stole the winnings, you'd be prosecuted for theft.]The point is that regardless of the amount the education costs, $10k, $20k, $30k, 60k, 100k 200k 500k whatever the hell it is.... A college education, especially when it is supported by financial aid, is still a dream for many legal citizens of the United States... and allowing these benefits to illegals, while ignoring the needs of legal residents, IS FUCKING STUPID BACKWARDS ASS HIPPIE LEGISLATION TO GET VOTES. I HOPE BROWN GETS A CANCEROUS TUMOR FOR EVERY ILLEGAL THAT IS HIRED/EDUCATED BEFORE/INSTEAD OF A US CITIZEN/PENDING LEGAL IMMIGRANT. FUCK THAT SHIT.

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Last edited by pepperochini; 10-18-2011 at 02:18 AM..
Old 10-18-2011, 02:11 AM pepperochini is offline  
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#56  

[H]ard|On
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impulse Rxn View Post
Giving aid to legal children of illegal immigrants is a no-brainer. Giving aid to illegal immigrants is dumb, and here's why:

If a student graduates college but remains an illegal immigrant (doesn't get himself on the path to citizenship,) AND can't find a job that will sponsor him for immigration (which should be easier than his less educated counterparts,) he is faced with a dilemma- most white collar jobs for which a degree would be useful (and access to these jobs-- therefore bringing these populations out of the lower rungs of society- would be the whole reason to give them these benefits in the first place)- are going to have some kind of citizenship check at some point.
Sure, you can fly under the radar if you're waiting tables or picking corn, but try sitting for a CFA after you get your BS in Accounting from UCal without citizenship or a green card. So what do they do? Go home, or go back to their own country with a degree that the US paid the bulk for. Again- this is assuming they have a hard time finding jobs that will sponsor them for citizenship, but if it's a general entry-level job that requires (for god knows what reason) a bachelors (think secretarial or "sales management") why would they go through the trouble of sponsoring an illegal when hordes of unemployed legal grads are in the pool?


Cliffs:
Illegal goes to college on aid, can't get a job because he's still illegal.

I'd be more scared of "illegal kid gets free USA education and bails" without repaying for it with service in the economy and all that shit, all while displacing kids that would.. potentially.
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:48 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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