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[H]ard|On
tell me i is retarded and i will just potato
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Febreze View Post
For shit's sake. Let me try to simplify this. Dio. Assuming you are not just being a contrarian troll...

This is how the big bang works. Take an empty soda can and squash it. The squashed soda can weighs exactly the same as a regular soda can (please fucking tell me you understand this) - of course other than the tiny amount of air the regular soda can has inside. But of course in space there is no air so they would have the same mass.

Ok. Got it? Now imagine the universe starts getting squashed down (if this is too difficult, imagine the Earth). All the same matter is there, it is just compressed. Squash it down to the side of golf ball. Squash it down to the size of a pea. Keep squashing it down. Smaller and smaller. Eventually you get to infinitely small. But all the matter is still there! The idea that we had "nothing" at the moment of or before the big bang is NONSENSE. The only "nothing" we had was that we had no empty space. Every single bit of matter that we have today was there* and that eventually "exploded" (started to expand).

*we don't know/understand the state of the matter/energy, but it was still there. It was likely all in the form of energy, but E = mc^2


To further elaborate this is possible because of how matter is made up, right? Inside a glass of water, most of it is empty space between the atoms. This is debated and I'm not a particle physicist of course.

Ie. a glass isn't half full or half empty it's always mostly empty since the atoms don't touch but are separated by their electron orbits/clouds/whatever
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:36 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Originally Posted by Xcric View Post
with all the booze i've had over the past year i should be a genius.

I know that feel.
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Old 09-05-2012, 12:05 AM pyramid is offline  
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dio
 
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pure nonsense. hallucinations are creations of your own mind on drugs.

when smart people take drugs and it helps them solve a problem they couldn't solve before, it is not because the drugs imparted them with knowledge. it is because the drugs created a relaxed or even novel state of mind, reduced inhibitions and also fucked with the normal operation of the brain so that in this uninhibited, relaxed novel state the person in question arranged knowledge they already contained into novel patterns they did not realize before.

There is science behind this. I believe there were a bunch of articles published recently about how even a small amount of beer "enhances creativity/problem solving" by lowering inhibition. I used to find this was true at work when I was banging my head against a wall trying to solve a problem, I frequently solved those problems by removing myself from the situation, going outside and having a smoke and a coffee. I'm pretty sure I solved most of the hardest problems I used to have by taking a step back and relaxing like that. It can seem like the solution almost pops into your mind from some outside source but it does not. the coffee and cigarettes did not magically impart me with knowledge I didn't have and neither do hallucinogens.

What Mckenna says is not really a matter of 'opinion', it's merely a matter of how much you took... To suggest that the 'psyechedellic experience' is 'rearranging thought patterns' in your head tends to make me think you've never even took a fully psychedellic dose of anything. Don't you realize at a certain dosage level there aren't "THOUGHT PATTERNS" but rather there are "FULLY THREE DIMENSIONAL FORMS AND ENTTITES THAT are the most intricate and alien structures you've ever seen in your entire life, that completely defy anything you could of possibly imagined in your entire life, and register to you as more real than actual reality", we aren't dealing with 'THOUGHT PATTERNS" jesus christ, what McKenna is talking about is quite literally, for the experiencer, indiscernible from interdimensional travel.

On this subject, go here and listen starting at minute 14:00 exactly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_ObhiOEd68

that is the truth

Now what you say about certain drugs relaxing the mind, letting the brain rearrange into new patterns, and solve new problems, I would absolutely completely agree with that being 100% TRUTH. But that is NOT the psychedellic experience.

Quote:
In simpler terms, you are not the same as carl sagan because you both smoked weed. McKenna is not the same as Tyson or Hubble or Einstein because he took some drugs and hallucinated.

that is full on R-tarded.
your better than silly strawmens like that

No where do I claim to come in any lineage following sagan, hubble or einstein, and neither does mckenna.

McKenna saw himself to more personally follow in the lineage of Alduous Huxley and Marshal Mcluhan more so than anyone else.

Last edited by dio; 09-05-2012 at 12:56 AM..
Old 09-05-2012, 12:48 AM dio is offline  
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dio
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Febreze View Post
For shit's sake. Let me try to simplify this. Dio. Assuming you are not just being a contrarian troll...

This is how the big bang works. Take an empty soda can and squash it. The squashed soda can weighs exactly the same as a regular soda can (please fucking tell me you understand this) - of course other than the tiny amount of air the regular soda can has inside. But of course in space there is no air so they would have the same mass.

Ok. Got it? Now imagine the universe starts getting squashed down (if this is too difficult, imagine the Earth). All the same matter is there, it is just compressed. Squash it down to the side of golf ball. Squash it down to the size of a pea. Keep squashing it down. Smaller and smaller. Eventually you get to infinitely small. But all the matter is still there! The idea that we had "nothing" at the moment of or before the big bang is NONSENSE. The only "nothing" we had was that we had no empty space. Every single bit of matter that we have today was there* and that eventually "exploded" (started to expand).

*we don't know/understand the state of the matter/energy, but it was still there. It was likely all in the form of energy, but E = mc^2

Ahem minute 2:45
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV0ACIykxQI

It's not that I don't understand your description, even more than that, I knew it before you explained it, and it's not that I don't agree with it. But it's that this thread is originally about critisizing that often told atheist creation story.

But your post brings up an interesting pecuilarity.... why you are trying to avoid recognizing the connection of the universe to 'nothing'?
Old 09-05-2012, 12:52 AM dio is offline  
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What Mckenna says is not really a matter of 'opinion', it's merely a matter of how much you took... To suggest that the 'psyechedellic experience' is 'rearranging thought patterns' in your head tends to make me think you've never even took a fully psychedellic dose of anything.



That's it. I'm out.

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Old 09-05-2012, 01:14 AM pyramid is offline  
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That's it. I'm out.


I should retract a bit that I don't really agree with McKenna's full on war for getting people to take 5+ grams of mushrooms...

It was appropriate for his time, a time when shredding through cultural at the cost of anything was the most important thing to do. But I don't think it's appropriate anymore.

I personally think only people who are/can
1) Draw reasonably well
2) Play an instrument or sing reasonably well
and 3) willing to talk alone

should ever touch such high dosages.

I don't really want to argue the full position of McKenna, because it's not worth arguing. Not everyone should know about this.

But it for some reason deeply bothers me when someone notions that visions are the result of some sort of improper firing of brain synapses. It bothers me even more when a supposed 'atheist' makes this claim. Becuase if you roll back the clock on this, a few hundred years ago. You had the CHURCH and as a polar opposite you had the 'witch', or rather you had the 'magickian', the 'occultist' and the 'witch/magickian/occultist' was, and always has been, and still is a user of psychedellic substances. Magick only seems silly, cause your not practicing it under 500 ug of properly synthesized acid. The CHRISTIAN CHURCH went to INCREDIBLE lengths to suppress the wtich/magickian/occultist in favor of PUSHING the christian viewpoint of reality onto the masses of humanity. And when I see a supposed "ATHEIST" QUOTE UN FUCKING QUOTE "ATHEIST" who has NOT thoroughly dived into the opposite of Christianity, and what Christianity worked SO HARD to suppress, that being witchery/magick/occultism I tend to think BULL FUCKING SHIT. You have not a clue what it means to be "NOT CHRISTIAN". You just switched around a few words like I "believe in god" to "I DONT BELIEVE IN GOD" and "God said let there be light" to "everyone came from the big bang" and "The church defines what my body and soul is, and everything it should do" to "the medical church of science defines everything that my body is, and how it and what it should do".

At some point I am going to end this thing I like to call 'Christianity v2.0', or rather what you all like to call "Atheism".
Old 09-05-2012, 01:36 AM dio is offline  
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But it for some reason deeply bothers me when someone notions that visions are the result of some sort of improper firing of brain synapses. It bothers me even more when a supposed 'atheist' makes this claim. Becuase if you roll back the clock on this, a few hundred years ago. You had the CHURCH and as a polar opposite you had the 'witch', or rather you had the 'magickian', the 'occultist' and the 'witch/magickian/occultist' was, and always has been, and still is a user of psychedellic substances. Magick only seems silly, cause your not practicing it under 500 ug of properly synthesized acid. The CHRISTIAN CHURCH went to INCREDIBLE lengths to suppress the wtich/magickian/occultist in favor of PUSHING the christian viewpoint of reality onto the masses of humanity. And when I see a supposed "ATHEIST" QUOTE UN FUCKING QUOTE "ATHEIST" who has NOT thoroughly dived into the opposite of Christianity, and what Christianity worked SO HARD to suppress, that being witchery/magick/occultism I tend to think BULL FUCKING SHIT. You have not a clue what it means to be "NOT CHRISTIAN". You just switched around a few words like I "believe in god" to "I DONT BELIEVE IN GOD" and "God said let there be light" to "everyone came from the big bang" and "The church defines what my body and soul is, and everything it should do" to "the medical church of science defines everything that my body is, and how it and what it should do".

At some point I am going to end this thing I like to call 'Christianity v2.0', or rather what you all like to call "Atheism".

That is some incredibly bullshit logic right there.
Old 09-05-2012, 05:21 AM Gibonius is offline  
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Xcric
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dio View Post
I should retract a bit that I don't really agree with McKenna's full on war for getting people to take 5+ grams of mushrooms...

It was appropriate for his time, a time when shredding through cultural at the cost of anything was the most important thing to do. But I don't think it's appropriate anymore.

I personally think only people who are/can
1) Draw reasonably well
2) Play an instrument or sing reasonably well
and 3) willing to talk alone

should ever touch such high dosages.

I don't really want to argue the full position of McKenna, because it's not worth arguing. Not everyone should know about this.

But it for some reason deeply bothers me when someone notions that visions are the result of some sort of improper firing of brain synapses. It bothers me even more when a supposed 'atheist' makes this claim. Becuase if you roll back the clock on this, a few hundred years ago. You had the CHURCH and as a polar opposite you had the 'witch', or rather you had the 'magickian', the 'occultist' and the 'witch/magickian/occultist' was, and always has been, and still is a user of psychedellic substances. Magick only seems silly, cause your not practicing it under 500 ug of properly synthesized acid. The CHRISTIAN CHURCH went to INCREDIBLE lengths to suppress the wtich/magickian/occultist in favor of PUSHING the christian viewpoint of reality onto the masses of humanity. And when I see a supposed "ATHEIST" QUOTE UN FUCKING QUOTE "ATHEIST" who has NOT thoroughly dived into the opposite of Christianity, and what Christianity worked SO HARD to suppress, that being witchery/magick/occultism I tend to think BULL FUCKING SHIT. You have not a clue what it means to be "NOT CHRISTIAN". You just switched around a few words like I "believe in god" to "I DONT BELIEVE IN GOD" and "God said let there be light" to "everyone came from the big bang" and "The church defines what my body and soul is, and everything it should do" to "the medical church of science defines everything that my body is, and how it and what it should do".

At some point I am going to end this thing I like to call 'Christianity v2.0', or rather what you all like to call "Atheism".

You are utterly insane and have no idea what you're talking about, seeking only to justify your own deluded beliefs that have no basis in truth, or fact.
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Old 09-05-2012, 07:53 AM Xcric is offline  
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dio
 
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sorry i had a few martinis last night before that post sometimes i get a little worked up
Old 09-05-2012, 09:09 AM dio is offline  
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Xcric
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sorry i had a few martinis last night before that post sometimes i get a little worked up

That doesnt change the nature of the post, or the ridiculousness of it.
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Old 09-05-2012, 09:48 AM Xcric is offline  
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Gibonius
 
It's pretty funny because he gets all pissy about atheists being reactionary responses to Christianity, then tells us that we should investigate all his metaphysics bullshit because it's the opposite of Christianity. IRONY DETECTED AT MASSIVE LEVELS!!!

Also:
Quote:
Magick only seems silly, cause your not practicing it under 500 ug of properly synthesized acid.
My personal philosophy: if you need to be taking drugs to understand something, it's probably bullshit. I don't care if you happen to come to some epiphany while taking drugs, so long as it holds up to sober scrutiny later. But if it only makes sense to other acid-heads, well...let's just say that I'll need to see those guys make some contributions that go beyond metaphysical ramblings before I'm willing to buy in.
Old 09-05-2012, 12:43 PM Gibonius is offline  
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dio
 
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My personal philosophy: if you need to be taking drugs to understand something, it's probably . I don't care if you happen to come to some epiphany while taking drugs, so long as it holds up to sober scrutiny later. But if it only makes sense to other acid-heads, well...let's just say that I'll need to see those guys make some contributions that go beyond metaphysical ramblings before I'm willing to buy in.

Under the context that magick is 'willed brain change'... I think science has already pretty thoroughly proven psychedellics considerably change your brain.

Where you might digress is in the notion that this change is controllable...
Old 09-05-2012, 11:09 PM dio is offline  
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Under the context that magick is 'willed brain change'... I think science has already pretty thoroughly proven psychedellics considerably change your brain.

Where you might digress is in the notion that this change is controllable...

Nobody that has read your shit will doubt that they change your brain. I like my brain the way it is; I'm not adverse to "mind opening experiences" but anything that would risk turning what I have into what you have is sooooooo not worth the risk.
Old 09-06-2012, 12:41 AM Gibonius is offline  
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[H]ard|On
tell me i is retarded and i will just potato
 
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Seriously Dio you're bad PR for drugs.

Like you'll totally get it if you do enough acid maaan...
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:52 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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sorry i had a few martinis last night before that post sometimes i get a little worked up
Please, keep drinking.
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:25 AM CRasch is offline  
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