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ry_goody
 
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Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
why does thread not locked?

you cant just lock threads for the fun of it
Old 07-22-2009, 10:44 AM ry_goody is offline  
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this connection of the flatlanders to the western concept of death is completely novel

No it isn't You're just spouting more trendy Eastern reincarnation stuff. You babble for a couple hundred words about reincarnation, then follow it up with the obvious fact that
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Here it is. No one really knows what the fuck happens when you die.

Let that set in.

No one really knows what the fuck happens when you die.
and....amazingly...that's the rationalist position. The one you're making fun of, and can't actually quite figure out. You just assume that you get reincarnated, because you like sucking Eastern cock and you like circles. Your "scientific rational atheists" assume that nothing happens, because that's the default position when you don't know.
Old 07-22-2009, 12:02 PM Gibonius is offline  
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:21 PM UTRocketMan is offline  
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Renork
 
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I <3 Gib.

If I were a chick I would try to have your babies.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:30 PM Renork is offline  
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Abazaba
 
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He is right though. No one can say that they know what happens after death. Not one single person.

I'm a scientist by education and profession. I think it would be foolish for anyone to entirely discount the idea of some form of an afterlife or persistence at this point. Think back to the days before modern science. Humankind didn't know about things such as cells, atoms, or the universe. Now what if we are at a similar point only in modern science. What if there are all these other layers of discovery that we can't even fathom yet?
Old 07-22-2009, 08:08 PM Abazaba is offline  
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Renork
 
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He is right though. No one can say that they know what happens after death. Not one single person.

I'm a scientist by education and profession. I think it would be foolish for anyone to entirely discount the idea of some form of an afterlife or persistence at this point. Think back to the days before modern science. Humankind didn't know about things such as cells, atoms, or the universe. Now what if we are at a similar point only in modern science. What if there are all these other layers of discovery that we can't even fathom yet?

Just because they can not be discounted does not mean they merit serious consideration. You can not prove that there is not a magical land of unicorns and dragons just beyond the edge of the observable universe but it does not make it a reasonable prediction about reality.
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:12 PM Renork is offline  
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Abazaba
 
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Just because they can not be discounted does not mean they merit serious consideration. You can not prove that there is not a magical land of unicorns and dragons just beyond the edge of the observable universe but it does not make it a reasonable prediction about reality.

That isn't what I'm saying. I'm basing this on things that actually carry merit in the scientific community. Things like the inner workings of atoms, dark matter, black holes, the beginning of existence, what the fuck is time, and such.
Old 07-22-2009, 08:17 PM Abazaba is offline  
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Renork
 
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That isn't what I'm saying. I'm basing this on things that actually carry merit in the scientific community. Things like the inner workings of atoms, dark matter, black holes, the beginning of existence, what the fuck is time, and such.

Wait, when you said "He is right though." who were you referring to?
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:18 PM Renork is offline  
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ry_goody
 
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No it isn't You're just spouting more trendy Eastern reincarnation stuff. You babble for a couple hundred words about reincarnation, then follow it up with the obvious fact that

and....amazingly...that's the rationalist position. The one you're making fun of, and can't actually quite figure out. You just assume that you get reincarnated, because you like sucking Eastern cock and you like circles. Your "scientific rational atheists" assume that nothing happens, because that's the default position when you don't know.

My post has nothing to do with reincarnation or eastern concepts. It is mere COINCIDENCE that the easterners didn't revolve there conceptions of death around flatlander philosophical assumption. Mere coincidence.

Now. Saying one does not know what happens at death does not automatically rule out the truth of circle.

You know it's like, you can watch the cycle of an apple tree. Each season, new apples grow. They fall, they die, they rot into the ground. And then the next season, new apples grow, and do it again. Now I do not know exactly where the rotting apples go when they dissolve into the earth. I do not know what the experience of rotting and dissolving into the earth is. I do not know the process by which those rotting apples get absorbed back and used as nutrients to grow new apples. I do not know what happens to the apples. But I can, after sitting back and watching this cycle for long enough, I can safely assume that yes, new apples will come. And these will contain some of the nutrients from the apples that previously rotted on the ground.

That thought process is just as rational and grounded in reality as any thought process can possibly be.

Now my thought process on death is of a similiar nature. No I do not know where you go when you die. I have not seen it, I do not know the experience. But by being aware of the cycling nature of reality, I can safely, and rationally assume, that old life does live on through new life. That the experience of the human continues on.

See my position is just as rational as any. But where I differ from the flatlander 'its all over' escapist attitude is I use my rationality IN COMBINATION WITH paying attention to actual reality. And thus, my rationality references the cycles of the nature. The circle. Whereas your rationality references.... the straight line, the left overs of the flatlanders. The concept that something of existence just 'ends', thats it, done and over with, ends, that concept came from the flatlanders. NO where else, in ANY TEXT except for the flatlander belief system will you find the notion that something of existence just reaches it's edge and stops. This entire intuition you have that something can reach a certain point and just stop, that came from the flatlanders, it is a flatlander intuition that you are mixing in with your rationality.

For a moment. Just imagine yourself going around the earth. Around and around and around. Actually feel yourself going around it's circumfrence, then coming back to where you start, then going around again, and again. That feeling, that intuition, of it continually going and looping. That is how reality actually functions. That is how everything in reality functions.

That too is how death will function. You are not going to fall off the edge of existence in anyway. You keep looking back around.

The only way you could get the intuition that existence would just 'stop', thats from the flatlanders.

I mean, all ancient cultures from Vedic to Maya to Greece knew of the circular nature of the earth, and thus new of the circular nature of death. It is only when you get to places that mixed in with flatlander notion that you find people developing this belief that death is somehow the edge of existence. The Scientific Rational Atheist view of death exists, yes because of rationality, but also because it is mixed in with the intuitions of the flatlanders.
Old 07-22-2009, 08:21 PM ry_goody is offline  
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ry_goody
 
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Just because they can not be discounted does not mean they merit serious consideration. You can not prove that there is not a magical land of unicorns and dragons just beyond the edge of the observable universe but it does not make it a reasonable prediction about reality.

Well. this is entirely subject into itself.

There is a section of the astral plane that one would deem 'heaven'. And that yes, is filled with many christian souls. You can in fact see this place if you learn how to travel out of body.

But it's like any fancy, upscale club or vacation resort. It looks cool cause all of it's advertising and everyone makes a big deal about it. But when you get there, it's pretty meh. I would not wanna be locked there an eternity. It's pretty much just a sham on the part of the entities that perpetuate it, it's just one other way to trick people into selling their soul to an entity other than themselves.

unfortunately, the atheist section of 'non-existance' functins via a similiar dynamic. Just a big black box sitting there with a bunch of zoned out souls thinking there not existing. There still guided by the entities that sold them on the idea. There kind of like the zombies of the astral.

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Old 07-22-2009, 08:25 PM ry_goody is offline  
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Abazaba
 
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Wait, when you said "He is right though." who were you referring to?

That no one knows what happens when you die. Ry.
Old 07-22-2009, 08:29 PM Abazaba is offline  
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Renork
 
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As he has never used the word "flatlander" on genmay previous to this thread and now he can not fucking stop using it ry_goody must have just read Flatland. /sigh

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Well. this is entirely subject into itself.

There is a section of the astral plane that one would deem 'heaven'. And that yes, is filled with many christian souls. You can in fact see this place if you learn how to travel out of body.

But it's like any fancy, upscale club or vacation resort. It looks cool cause all of it's advertising and everyone makes a big deal about it. But when you get there, it's pretty meh. I would not wanna be locked there an eternity. It's pretty much just a sham on the part of the entities that perpetuate it, it's just one other way to trick people into selling their soul to an entity other than themselves.

You have no idea how much I hope for some thing to happen that sterilizes you.
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:31 PM Renork is offline  
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ry_goody
 
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That isn't what I'm saying. I'm basing this on things that actually carry merit in the scientific community. Things like the inner workings of atoms, dark matter, black holes, the beginning of existence, what the fuck is time, and such.

This is an interesting notion. And one I actually agree with because I believe concioussness originates at a level of matter deeper than molecular. Like, concioussness resides, potentially, at the quantum level of matter. So this means, you can lose all awareness of your flesh, but still be concious. You can essentially have your concioussness be aware of only the atomic, quantum layers of matter, but still be concious. You can exist in a place where you are only aware of energy. And I do believe this is sort of what occurs at death. It's not that some soul seperate from your flesh and floats off. But that rather, your concioussness draws back into the depths of matter itself. You become aware of simply the atomic, quantum levels of reality, which from a first person point of view, is just buzzing, and geometric colors, and this is in essence the afterlife. Until you manage to navigate the energy that is your concioussness to grow back into a human form somehow.

I had an experience once on a certain drug where it basically felt like, for essentially a couple million years, I was a ball of light spinning around and aroudn REALLY REALLY fast. Like in my vision, it was just strobing, a super fast strobe light. And each cycle of this strobe was coupled with the sensation of going in a circle. In retrospect, I realized, my concioussness was probably at the level of an atom, and that was what it was like to be an atom.

Of course, the other side of this context that anyone with a rational mind will hate is. There might be quite the world of existence at the smaller scales of reality. As in, there might actually be entities, structures and places to experience as just energy.
Old 07-22-2009, 08:34 PM ry_goody is offline  
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ry_goody
 
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As he has never used the word "flatlander" on genmay previous to this thread and now he can not fucking stop using it ry_goody must have just read Flatland. /sigh



You have no idea how much I hope for some thing to happen that sterilizes you.

I have never read the book. I only watched that short youtube trailer for the shitty movie them made off of it

and if you would notice, the context in which im using the term flatland has absolutely not a single thing to do with the context they used it in that book. The context im using flatland in is, when people believed the earth was flat
Old 07-22-2009, 08:36 PM ry_goody is offline  
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Renork
 
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That isn't what I'm saying. I'm basing this on things that actually carry merit in the scientific community. Things like the inner workings of atoms, dark matter, black holes, the beginning of existence, what the fuck is time, and such.

Ok, so if I asserted that time was really a gnome composed of nothing but minced onions turning an invisible gear system that connects everything would it be unreasonable to discount it simply because you can not prove that it is false and we do not currently know what time is?

Just because we have no current answer does not mean that the first thing someone shouts out is a reasonable prediction of what happens after death.

As Gib said, when we do not know, and have no evidence of ANYTHING happening, the only reasonable default position is that nothing happens. If, suddenly, evidence were uncovered that supported any old claims or even a new one then things might change, but until then it is unreasonable to assume something magical happens after you die even if you happen to find it comforting.
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:37 PM Renork is offline  
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