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:ninja:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrikfuzz050 View Post
Do you think anyone is defending that? I haven't heard ANYONE say that an insurance company should be able to do that since this whole thing began six months ago.

For the last fucking time, you don't have to have universal health care to have regulations on the industry

Nobody is defending that because it's a fucking stupid position to defend. This is one of the main reasons that people want healthcare reform. Advocates of reform are screaming about the immoral and illegal practices of health insurance companies.


You can not solve this problem by regulating the industry because there's so_much_fucking_profit to be made that everyone, including the lawmakers, get a nice fat cut.


However, creating a public option that will run private insurance companies out of business IS a way to solve it. Plus it removes the MEGA PROFITS which removes the incentive to fuck people over.
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Last edited by :ninja:; 08-30-2009 at 11:57 PM..
Old 08-30-2009, 11:51 PM :ninja: is offline  
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bingstudent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by :ninja: View Post
Nobody is defending that because it's a fucking stupid position to defend. This is one of the main reasons that people want healthcare reform. Advocates of reform are screaming about the immoral and illegal practices of health insurance companies.

WRONG

it's exactly what the CEO of wellpoint is defending, posted above, here's the quote:

Quote:
In a recent interview, NPR’s Steve Inskeep forced WellPoint CEO Angela Braly to concede her company fears that “changes in the insurance market and regulations” could cut into her profits the most. That is because, as Igor Volsky has observed, WellPoint’s business model is “antithetical to regulation,” since the company aggressively pursues healthy customers who are less likely to use benefits to pay for medical care. As the company adds healthy customers, WellPoint has made a science of finding ways to deny coverage to the sick. California regulators uncovered more than 1,200 violations of the law by the company in regard to unfair rescission and claims processing practices.

Braly, who earns nearly $10 million a year, wants “sustainable reform,” yet opposes what her company calls “Obamacare,” refuses to stop rescinding coverage to the sick, and is even suspicious of an individual mandate. Although health insurance lobbyists continue to press their case that they truly want reform “this time,” WellPoint and its stealth lobbying efforts severely undermine that claim.
Old 08-31-2009, 12:22 AM bingstudent is offline  
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TheMorlock
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you are not that bright are you bongstudent?
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:44 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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#93  

Tom
 
saw this and figured this thread would be the best place to leave it.

Old 08-31-2009, 12:48 AM Tom is offline  
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#94  

Tom
 
oh and this:

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


i guess the point being; why do private companies need to compete?

There is a jobs argument... more jobs = more coal for the economy and more taxes paid to the government.
-these jobs are mostly paper pushing jobs that really only require a business savvy mind or an ambulance-chancing-like legislative mind. They could be let loose upon any other service industry or forced to come up with an idea which could help people in a different way.

there is an innovation argument? WE NEED PRIVATE HEALTHCARE COMPANIES BECAUSE they are the ones who invest in medical advances, because if diseases are cured they can charge the same premiums with less risk, because less people will be infected by certain cured medical problems.
-it is at the very least a bold statement to say that health insurance profits are the only reason scientists (doctors) work to cure diseases, and likely just stupid.
-also it disregards the notion that pharmaceutical companies in particular have something to gain profit wise from curing diseases and afflictions.

and there is a fear of big brother argument? The government is going to track my eating, drinking, physical activity, habits along with my genetic information thus knowing too much about my personal choices? And that knowledge could lead to... fascism?
-honestly i cant say anything to this but... maybe? To assume that we would really let any of that happen scares me, and to say that the off chance that we wouldnt stand up to direct oppression of the US government tells me that we dont deserve to be given enough credit to choose our own health care in this supposed 'free market.'

So no, private companies dont need to compete
, but if you view me post above this one they are not really being asked to by this bill. It's true that may people may flow to the government funded plan over time but that is necessary and not damaging to the supposed American way of life. By making health care more affordable and consistent to those of us who can afford it, and extending it to those who cant under the current system we can avoid run away health care costs as the baby boomers retire, while opening up the business savvy to actually expanding breath of the American economy.
Old 08-31-2009, 04:13 AM Tom is offline  
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Electrikfuzz050
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bingstudent View Post
You do realize that wellpoint, the organization that provided the information you linked to, is the largest health insurance company in blue cross/blue shield, right?

let's learn more about wellpoint!



http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/28/wellpoint-attacks/


You think I didn't know that?

I would think that the company providing the services would be able to explain where all the money goes.

But it's more likely that the CEO is just trying to line his pockets, right?

Also, notice all the references at the bottom. Care to take issue with those instead of who published the report?

edit: good job attacking my argument with one of the most leftist/socialist sites around. You really are a

Last edited by Electrikfuzz050; 08-31-2009 at 06:07 AM..
Old 08-31-2009, 05:50 AM Electrikfuzz050 is offline  
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#96  

Electrikfuzz050
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by :ninja: View Post
Nobody is defending that because it's a fucking stupid position to defend. This is one of the main reasons that people want healthcare reform. Advocates of reform are screaming about the immoral and illegal practices of health insurance companies.


You can not solve this problem by regulating the industry because there's so_much_fucking_profit to be made that everyone, including the lawmakers, get a nice fat cut.


However, creating a public option that will run private insurance companies out of business IS a way to solve it. Plus it removes the MEGA PROFITS which removes the incentive to fuck people over.

your entire argument is laughable. Can you show how much of a MEGA PROFIT () these companies are making?
Old 08-31-2009, 05:53 AM Electrikfuzz050 is offline  
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#97  

Electrikfuzz050
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bingstudent View Post
WRONG

it's exactly what the CEO of wellpoint is defending, posted above, here's the quote:

You're right, what a prime example of corporate greed. Actually, what should be done is the the government creating some sort of tax incentive for insurance companies not to drop their customers.
Old 08-31-2009, 05:56 AM Electrikfuzz050 is offline  
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Electrikfuzz050
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom View Post
oh and this:

There is a jobs argument... more jobs = more coal for the economy and more taxes paid to the government.
-these jobs are mostly paper pushing jobs that really only require a business savvy mind or an ambulance-chancing-like legislative mind. They could be let loose upon any other service industry or forced to come up with an idea which could help people in a different way.

Really? Care to explain why unemployment is at an all time high then? I guess we're just making it up

Quote:
there is an innovation argument? WE NEED PRIVATE HEALTHCARE COMPANIES BECAUSE they are the ones who invest in medical advances, because if diseases are cured they can charge the same premiums with less risk, because less people will be infected by certain cured medical problems.
-it is at the very least a bold statement to say that health insurance profits are the only reason scientists (doctors) work to cure diseases, and likely just stupid.
-also it disregards the notion that pharmaceutical companies in particular have something to gain profit wise from curing diseases and afflictions.
Please explain why more than half of the people who received the Nobel Prize for Medicine in the past 50 years have been American.

Quote:
and there is a fear of big brother argument? The government is going to track my eating, drinking, physical activity, habits along with my genetic information thus knowing too much about my personal choices? And that knowledge could lead to... fascism?
-honestly i cant say anything to this but... maybe? To assume that we would really let any of that happen scares me, and to say that the off chance that we wouldnt stand up to direct oppression of the US government tells me that we dont deserve to be given enough credit to choose our own health care in this supposed 'free market.'


Right, because giving the government more power doesn't put them in a position to abuse it or anything. Unless you trust your politicians or fantasize about deep throating Obama like Bingstudent, I don't understand how you can be for giving more power to the government.

Quote:
So no, private companies dont need to compete
Quote:
, but if you view me post above this one they are not really being asked to by this bill. It's true that may people may flow to the government funded plan over time but that is necessary and not damaging to the supposed American way of life. By making health care more affordable and consistent to those of us who can afford it, and extending it to those who cant under the current system we can avoid run away health care costs as the baby boomers retire, while opening up the business savvy to actually expanding breath of the American economy.
We already have health care for seniors, health care doesn't need to be socialized to be affordable, and the majority of the Americans are happy with their current health care.

This really is robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Old 08-31-2009, 06:06 AM Electrikfuzz050 is offline  
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Bukkakeboy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrikfuzz050 View Post
Right, because giving the government more power doesn't put them in a position to abuse it or anything. Unless you trust your politicians or fantasize about deep throating Obama like Bingstudent, I don't understand how you can be for giving more power to the government.
But if the power isn't with the government its with the private insurance companies, and I trust the government a lot more when it comes to health and care (and not profit) then I do private corps.

Quote:
Health care doesn't need to be socialized to be affordable, and the majority of the Americans are happy with their current health care.
And I think that is because most people don't understand how much their current healthcare actually costs.
It doesn't need to be socialized, but if you look back at how long the insurancecompanies have been fucking over and dropping people, a big assed change is needed.
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Old 08-31-2009, 06:38 AM Bukkakeboy is offline  
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#100  

TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrikfuzz050 View Post
You're right, what a prime example of corporate greed. Actually, what should be done is the the government creating some sort of tax incentive for insurance companies not to drop their customers.

We need to spend 9 trillion to make sure the insurance companies dont make a profit.
We need to reform health care because we don't prosecute the illegal behavior of insurance companies.

Didn't bongstudent send you the memo?
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Old 08-31-2009, 07:33 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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#101  

:ninja:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bingstudent View Post
WRONG

it's exactly what the CEO of wellpoint is defending, posted above, here's the quote:

Well I'll be damned. She seems like such a sweet woman.
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Old 08-31-2009, 09:52 AM :ninja: is offline  
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#102  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrikfuzz050 View Post
Actually, I'm quite happy with my health care and so are the majority of Americans (the cost is pretty high obviously, but there's things that can be done to reduce it).

Don't say we're getting shit in return, because you have no fucking clue as to what you're talking about.

Things need to be regulated, and things need to be done to bring costs down. That doesn't mean we need to socialize our health insurance industry.

You are getting shit in return because despite the fact that you pay more taxes than anyone else, and pay vastly more out of pocket than anyone else, you're still left with millions of people without coverage and a system that frankly isn't even all that fucking good

I'm glad you're happy and everything but it doesn't change the fact that Americans are getting royally shafted on health coverage.
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Old 08-31-2009, 10:02 AM Vannaroth is offline  
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#103  

:ninja:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrikfuzz050 View Post
your entire argument is laughable. Can you show how much of a MEGA PROFIT () these companies are making?
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranci...5/daily36.html

Odd how a "non-profit" organization manages to bring in 2.5 billion dollars in profit in nine months, giving credit to "ongoing efforts to address health-care delivery costs and administrative efficiencies" which sounds a lot like denying care. Which makes perfect sense, because denying care to increase profits was Edgar Kaiser's idea.


So, what's so laughable about $2.5 billion again?
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:39 PM :ninja: is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by :ninja: View Post
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranci...5/daily36.html

Odd how a "non-profit" organization manages to bring in 2.5 billion dollars in profit in nine months, giving credit to "ongoing efforts to address health-care delivery costs and administrative efficiencies" which sounds a lot like denying care. Which makes perfect sense, because denying care to increase profits was Edgar Kaiser's idea.


So, what's so laughable about $2.5 billion again?

There's plenty of blame to place on the insurance companies, but don't fixate on them if you want to get to a real solution. The care providers are just as much at fault, if not more so. They don't draw emotional ire the same way, since they aren't the ones denying you care, but their efforts at ratcheting up costs are what's leading the insurance companies to act so badly.
Old 08-31-2009, 01:09 PM Gibonius is offline  
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