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vinnie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n9vmo
OK. Here is my answer that you are to lazy to dig out.

Too lazy? I waffled. I just choose what I read and don't deem brainwashed American propaganda worthy of my time.


Quote:
Because no other country on this planet has the freedoms that we here in the U.S. do and frankly I do not think that they would know what to do with them
What freedoms are these per se?

Freedom of speech? Yeah, most of the western world has that. Press? Yeah. Satire? Yup. That covers the basics.

What about... here it comes... 'patriot act'. Ooh! Gosh, there's some freedoms that you don't really have. Over here, we have rights like lawyers and due process... apparently you guys missed that boat. How about.. social security? Apparently you missed that boat too. What about free health care? Yeah, that one went sailing past.

What about criminals? Got any of them?
Quote:
In absolute terms, the United States currently has the largest prison population in the world, with more than 2 million
Quote:
United States is second largest in relative numbers with 486 prisoners per 100,000 of population, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, also making it the largest in relative numbers amongst developed countries.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison

Oh yeah, you sure got some criminals. More than anyone else on the planet in fact.

So what do you really have freedom wise? Well... guns. Yay. Lets throw aside our freedoms, due process, lack of criminals, free health care, social security and cultural identity so we can have guns.

Refute that bitch
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Old 03-01-2006, 10:26 PM vinnie is offline  
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drx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie
Refute that bitch

I'm sorry, I don't read stupid Australian propaganda.
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Old 03-01-2006, 10:46 PM drx is offline  
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vinnie
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Originally Posted by drx
I'm sorry, I don't read stupid Australian propaganda.

The American way!

We are better than you because we have guns! We have no real freedom, we have no international media. We can't find Iraq on a map, most of us can't even find our own capital on a map. We all however feel free to comment on other countries that we don't even what hemisphere they're in
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Old 03-01-2006, 11:00 PM vinnie is offline  
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drx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie
The American way!

We are better than you because we have guns! We have no real freedom, we have no international media. We can't find Iraq on a map, most of us can't even find our own capital on a map. We all however feel free to comment on other countries that we don't even what hemisphere they're in

bwahahaha, you just insulted yourself man. My comment was intended to mirror yours about American propaganda in your post. Maybe now you can see how stupid you sound. Way to go.
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Old 03-01-2006, 11:19 PM drx is offline  
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Our population numbers around 300 million. Your country averages at around 20 million. Sounds right that we would have more criminals. We have the 3rd most populated country in the world behind china and India. It makes sense that we have more people in prison. China is oppressive and controlling thank god we are not like them. Only allowed to have a certain number of kids, I mean wtf. India still has people that are pretty much slaves: kids, women doing backbreaking work. I don't think you can look at just one statistic and automatically know what you're talking about.

We might have the means to actually lock up all of our criminals opposed to some other countries without the manpower.

Sure, some other countries have free health care like Sweden. Who do you think pays for that stuff? That money is taken out of their paychecks. Social security has not been thrown away. The ability to bear arms is not a freedom in our country; it's a right for every individual.

I can foresee a problem in countries, which do not allow guns, suddenly passing legislation giving everyone the right to own a gun. It would probably be a hectic start with many people screwing up, but that’s only because something new takes time to get use to. Everyone that has a gun today in America isn't going out and killing people and that’s because we've had the right since our country was created. No need to get use to something new.

People know here that if they fuck up, the rest of their life is gone.

It’s pretty easy to keep 20 or so kids disciplined in a small room. Put 300 in there and it might get a little difficult.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/.../2119rank.html
Old 03-01-2006, 11:19 PM Kirby is offline  
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n9vmo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie
Too lazy? I waffled. I just choose what I read and don't deem brainwashed American propaganda worthy of my time.

Then what I stated before has just been proven correct. At least I gave you the benefit of the doubt and have read everything that you have posted in this thread and the other thread where I first learned of your position on personal firearm ownership.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie
What freedoms are these per se?

Freedom of speech? Yeah, most of the western world has that. Press? Yeah. Satire? Yup. That covers the basics.

Gee I don’t remember “Satire” as a basic right. It usually gets lumped in there with the freedom of speech. Hell, the freedom of speech even covers the burning of our flag.

And damn, you forgot three more. How about the Freedom of Religion, Freedom from Unlawful Search and Seizure, Freedom from Self-incrimination. Those are the major freedoms that I think of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie
What about... here it comes... 'patriot act'. Ooh! Gosh, there's some freedoms that you don't really have. Over here, we have rights like lawyers and due process... apparently you guys missed that boat. How about.. social security? Apparently you missed that boat too. What about free health care? Yeah, that one went sailing past.

Unfortunately, you have been listening to the mainstream media. We still have due process and lawyers and the right to a speedy trial. If you are going to try and bring up the prisoners at “Gitmo”, don’t, they are POWs and therefore, are not accorded the same rights as a civilian. Don’t get me wrong on this one, I think the patriot act is a piece of shit and needs to be done away with, but there are built-in checks and balances in it.

You ask about Social Security. Now days it is just a wonderful way to make lazy bastards beholden to the state, instead of making them go out and find work. Social Security was started during the Great (?) Depression as a way of helping the poorest of the poor get back on their feet. People didn’t live as long so the government was not worried about running out of money. Then back in the late ‘60s, LBJ and friends decided to lump the social security funds in with the general funds and support the war in Viet Nam. That and the fact that people are living longer and look at what we have now, an albatross hanging around the necks of every U.S. tax payer

What about “Free Health Care” you ask. What the hell is free about it? Where exactly does the funding come from? The government you say. Where do they get the money??? Your tax dollars. So I ask again, what the hell is free about it. If it is anything like I have seen from our neighbors to our north, you can keep it. Patients are having to wait months and months just to get a checkup??? God forbid they have something really wrong with them. There are substantiated reports out there that people have died waiting to get to see a doctor for a problem that could have easily been treated with a simple office visit, but could not get in to see a doctor. It happens here in the states also, but it is usually caused by the patient failing to get off of their lazy ass and go see the doctor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie
What about criminals? Got any of them?
Quote:
In absolute terms, the United States currently has the largest prison population in the world, with more than 2 million

Quote:
United States is second largest in relative numbers with 486 prisoners per 100,000 of population, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, also making it the largest in relative numbers amongst developed countries.

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison

Oh yeah, you sure got some criminals. More than anyone else on the planet in fact.

Yeah, we got criminals. Our jails are overflowing with them. Why? Well, let’s look at a fact that your numbers hide. The U.S. is the 3rd most populated country on earth. The 2 countries in the lead are China and India. Sheer numbers alone are going to skew your numbers. In fact I would venture to say that for every one person in jail, be it federal, state or local, there are probably four or five others that SHOULD be in jail. And you ask why law abiding citizens here in the U.S. should be able to carry guns. Hell, our Supreme Court has stated that the local police forces are not under any obligation to protect people. Calling 911, our emergency line to the law enforcement agencies, is no more than government sponsored “Dial-A-Prayer”. However your numbers also show something else, we here in the U.S. also have more police officers just because of our sheer numbers. It is just too bad that we do not have enough of them. Then we could do away with guns in private hands like the rest of the world has.


So I reiterate, do I think the rest of the world should be able to own and carry firearms. NO! Do I think the rest of the world should throw aside their freedoms, due process, the lack of criminals, free health care, social security and cultural identity so they can have guns? NO! However, you can keep the free health care and social security I will do without thank you very much.

One other thing, if you could be so kind as to refrain from using wikipedia, it has been shown that anyone can doctor the info on that website. Try to use more than one source. Your facts might seem a bit more credible.
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Old 03-01-2006, 11:58 PM n9vmo is offline  
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n9vmo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie
The American way!

We are better than you because we have guns! We have no real freedom, we have no international media. We can't find Iraq on a map, most of us can't even find our own capital on a map. We all however feel free to comment on other countries that we don't even what hemisphere they're in

We have real freedoms.

We have an international media.

I for one can find Iraq on a map.

I can find both my state capitol and my national capitol on a map. Hell I can even land navigate with a map and compass.

And Australia is in the southern hemisphere and it is the only island that is also considered a contenent or vicea versa.

I only comment on other countries when someone provokes me into doing so. As far as I am concerned, the rest of the world can go to hell, just as long as they don't try to take my country with them.
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Old 03-02-2006, 12:08 AM n9vmo is offline  
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#82  

Jade Robbins
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie
Too lazy? I waffled. I just choose what I read and don't deem brainwashed American propaganda worthy of my time.




What freedoms are these per se?

Freedom of speech? Yeah, most of the western world has that. Press? Yeah. Satire? Yup. That covers the basics.

What about... here it comes... 'patriot act'. Ooh! Gosh, there's some freedoms that you don't really have. Over here, we have rights like lawyers and due process... apparently you guys missed that boat. How about.. social security? Apparently you missed that boat too. What about free health care? Yeah, that one went sailing past.

What about criminals? Got any of them?



- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison

Oh yeah, you sure got some criminals. More than anyone else on the planet in fact.

So what do you really have freedom wise? Well... guns. Yay. Lets throw aside our freedoms, due process, lack of criminals, free health care, social security and cultural identity so we can have guns.

Refute that bitch
fuck social security and free healthcare. Socialism != freedom douchebag.
Old 03-02-2006, 06:47 AM Jade Robbins is offline  
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Master-Bate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie

What about... here it comes... 'patriot act'. Ooh! Gosh, there's some freedoms that you don't really have. Over here, we have rights like lawyers and due process... apparently you guys missed that boat. How about.. social security? Apparently you missed that boat too. What about free health care? Yeah, that one went sailing past.

What about criminals? Got any of them?



- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison

Oh yeah, you sure got some criminals. More than anyone else on the planet in fact.

So what do you really have freedom wise? Well... guns. Yay. Lets throw aside our freedoms, due process, lack of criminals, free health care, social security and cultural identity so we can have guns.

Refute that bitch

Yep, you hit the nail on the head about the American Government, since you do so much objective reading about it. And you are 100% correct when you state that the Patriot Act revokes our rights to due process and fair trials.

If the criminals are off the streets and in prision, the less likely they are to stab someone to death in front of thier family (which never happens in austraila BTW).

Heath care isnt free because people dont want to pay higher taxes to support other peoples fuckups. In America you have the right to act like an idiot (the patriot act didnt take that away) and if you get hurt doing it, you are going to pay to get better .
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Old 03-02-2006, 07:43 AM Master-Bate is offline  
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#84  

Defiler
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie
Too lazy? I waffled. I just choose what I read and don't deem brainwashed American propaganda worthy of my time.




What freedoms are these per se?

Freedom of speech? Yeah, most of the western world has that. Press? Yeah. Satire? Yup. That covers the basics.

What about... here it comes... 'patriot act'. Ooh! Gosh, there's some freedoms that you don't really have. Over here, we have rights like lawyers and due process... apparently you guys missed that boat. How about.. social security? Apparently you missed that boat too. What about free health care? Yeah, that one went sailing past.

What about criminals? Got any of them?



- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison

Oh yeah, you sure got some criminals. More than anyone else on the planet in fact.

So what do you really have freedom wise? Well... guns. Yay. Lets throw aside our freedoms, due process, lack of criminals, free health care, social security and cultural identity so we can have guns.

Refute that bitch

another note on free health care, even though here in the U.S. you do have to pay for your own medical expenses, no hospital or clinic can deny you treatment due to your inability to pay. They may set you up on monthly bills or something, and if its a serious issue with expensive treatment, you may even find yourself in serious debt. But there are ways to deal with that. Many workplaces offer medical insurance, and there are programs out there to help people pay for medical costs. The bill collecters for hospitals, in my experiance, arent assholes either. I have been able to go in, hand them a check of X amount of dollars, say "here, this is all i can afford for now". They take the check, say thanks, and even dropped the rest of the payments for me. So its not this heartless P.O.S. system you make it out to be.

America was not built on a foundation of lazyness. I have learned that in order to succeed, you merely have to try. If you sit at home all the time, and do jack shit, then yeah, things tend to work against you.
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Old 03-02-2006, 10:49 AM Defiler is offline  
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