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kristchan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emx599 View Post
Too many idiots told them the car was worth $1. Now they look up the market value for your car and charge you tax on that.
Total BS if you ask me.
People were cheating the system, the system changed. Blame the idiots who didn't pay their fair share.
Old 04-15-2008, 03:14 PM kristchan is offline  
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Dan
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kristchan View Post
People were cheating the system, the system changed. Blame the idiots who didn't pay their fair share.

The argument here though is that they got their fair share all along from the initial sale, any penny they took in tax from the used sale is illegitimate
Old 04-15-2008, 03:57 PM Dan is offline  
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kristchan
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The argument here though is that they got their fair share all along from the initial sale, any penny they took in tax from the used sale is illegitimate

With cars, I don't think that's a valid argument. So long as the car is running, it's using the streets, those need to be maintained. If you're telling the government that you paid $1 for your car, then whining about potholes, you're going on my face punching spree list.

As for everything else, meh... I try not to worry about the stuff I can't change.
The only money the government "makes" is on taxes. So they're going to get it where ever they can. I'm not going to cry over the $1.07 I give to the government on my consignment store purchace. It's a losing battle.
Old 04-15-2008, 04:31 PM kristchan is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kristchan View Post
With cars, I don't think that's a valid argument. So long as the car is running, it's using the streets, those need to be maintained. If you're telling the government that you paid $1 for your car, then whining about potholes, you're going on my face punching spree list.

As for everything else, meh... I try not to worry about the stuff I can't change.
The only money the government "makes" is on taxes. So they're going to get it where ever they can. I'm not going to cry over the $1.07 I give to the government on my consignment store purchace. It's a losing battle.

they get their money for pots holes and such from gas tax though, no?
Old 04-15-2008, 04:35 PM holmgren is offline  
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Corporate income tax is a much more egregious form of double taxation than sales tax
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Old 04-15-2008, 05:05 PM LegalMaven is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegalMaven View Post
Corporate income tax is a much more egregious form of double taxation than sales tax

How so? I'm not being flip, I'm curious to what you mean.
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Old 04-15-2008, 05:17 PM RiderOnTheStorm is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kristchan View Post
With cars, I don't think that's a valid argument. So long as the car is running, it's using the streets, those need to be maintained. If you're telling the government that you paid $1 for your car, then whining about potholes, you're going on my face punching spree list.

As for everything else, meh... I try not to worry about the stuff I can't change.
The only money the government "makes" is on taxes. So they're going to get it where ever they can. I'm not going to cry over the $1.07 I give to the government on my consignment store purchace. It's a losing battle.

As it stands, I think multiple taxation of the same product is wrong and not in line with a rational set of rules.

Then to make the argument that it's OK for the government to double tax and break the "rules" so it can spend it on infrastructure is like saying its OK for me to short change a customer because I need to buy myself food.
No doubt the government needs money (just like I need food) but they should always get this money through honest and forthright means, not bending the rules to their advantage.

For road infrastructure money is also taken from fuel tax dollars and federal funding.



I'm not posing this thread as a concerned citizen as much as I'm posing it as a business owner dealing in pre-owned goods. I have to charge sales tax for my used inventory which raises costs for my customers which then makes my products less desirable and competitive.
Old 04-15-2008, 05:30 PM Dan is offline  
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As a consumption tax, I think it's perfectly fair. The buyer is simply being reimbursed for his paid tax when he sells the product again.

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No thats not correct. Sales tax never goes to you, it goes to the state. The first time the item is sold the state gets it, the 2nd time its sold the state gets it in addition to what they got before
I don't think it works that way. Can you provide some documentation?
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Old 04-15-2008, 05:57 PM :ninja: is offline  
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kristchan
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I think the should and shouldn't of taxes is better suited for the pit.
The is of taxes is more EL.

PS Government sucks.
Old 04-15-2008, 06:22 PM kristchan is offline  
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Quote:
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No thats not correct. Sales tax never goes to you, it goes to the state. The first time the item is sold the state gets it, the 2nd time its sold the state gets it in addition to what they got before

sales tax varies county by county
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Old 04-15-2008, 06:23 PM prometheum is offline  
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How so? I'm not being flip, I'm curious to what you mean.

All the income a corporation makes is taxed twice. The first tax is the corporate income tax, and the second tax comes when the corporation's profit is distributed to employee's (through the payroll and personal income taxes) or shareholders (capital gains tax).

This double taxation is more egregious than the sales tax because the rates are so much higher. Of course, there are arguments for a corporate income tax, but I don't think any of them are compelling. Although comparisons to other countries are in general a terrible way to make normative arguments, it may be instructive to note that America's corporate tax rates are very high among developed nations.
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Old 04-15-2008, 06:26 PM LegalMaven is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegalMaven View Post
All the income a corporation makes is taxed twice. The first tax is the corporate income tax, and the second tax comes when the corporation's profit is distributed to employee's (through the payroll and personal income taxes) or shareholders (capital gains tax).
It's actually taxed more than twice, taking into account the income tax paid on the money used by the customers of the corporation that constitute the corporation's revenues, which are then taxed again and paid out to the employees and shareholders, taxed again, and then those people use the money and buy things, which makes more revenues for another corporation, which is taxed... ad infinitum.
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Old 04-15-2008, 06:30 PM cromicus is offline  
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It's actually taxed more than twice, taking into account the income tax paid on the money used by the customers of the corporation that constitute the corporation's revenues, which are then taxed again and paid out to the employees and shareholders, taxed again, and then those people use the money and buy things, which makes more revenues for another corporation, which is taxed... ad infinitum.

This is the problem with talking about double (triple, etc.) taxation. Money circulates, so the same money gets taxed repeatedly. By convention, we typically begin at the production stage (i.e. profits from a company) and end right before consumption (i.e. when the consumer gets paid). In other words, we only count the number of taxations on a single income. When it
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Old 04-15-2008, 07:14 PM LegalMaven is offline  
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The government produces nothing. By definition, therefore every penny they intake is theft. They forcibly demand money from you without producing anything in return for it. Therefore, the normal limits of how much someone can demand from another are null and void. I can't demand $15/hour to do a job if it's only worth $8/hour. If I'm not capable of providing $15 worth of labor in an hour, I can't demand more from my employer. However, if I've got a gun to your head, I can just as easily demand your wallet as your wallet and cellphone.

That's why we have such twisted tax laws. And I'm 100% in agreement with you on this. Money certainly shouldn't be taxed more than once, but if you look at it, redundant taxation is everywhere, as cromicus pointed out. And it's fucking stupid.
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Old 04-15-2008, 07:47 PM yoda634 is offline  
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Quote:
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The government produces nothing. By definition, therefore every penny they intake is theft. They forcibly demand money from you without producing anything in return for it. Therefore, the normal limits of how much someone can demand from another are null and void. I can't demand $15/hour to do a job if it's only worth $8/hour. If I'm not capable of providing $15 worth of labor in an hour, I can't demand more from my employer. However, if I've got a gun to your head, I can just as easily demand your wallet as your wallet and cellphone.

That's why we have such twisted tax laws. And I'm 100% in agreement with you on this. Money certainly shouldn't be taxed more than once, but if you look at it, redundant taxation is everywhere, as cromicus pointed out. And it's fucking stupid.

The government provides plenty of services, for instance the police, certain public works, a judicial system, etc. Very few economists (and no reputable ones) think that the ideal tax rate is zero, regardless of whether they think the ideal is lower than our current rate.
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Old 04-15-2008, 08:26 PM LegalMaven is offline  
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