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Board-Senseless
 
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Originally Posted by Schaden View Post
Go fuck yourself.

As compelling as that argument may be, I think LK makes a better one. Thanks for playing.
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Old 01-08-2008, 06:36 AM Board-Senseless is offline  
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#31  

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Badger_sly
 
Well put LegendKiller.

Youtube (and RP) are breeding ignorant retards at a massive level.
Old 01-08-2008, 02:18 PM Badger_sly is offline  
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#32  

wingedbuttmonkey
 
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The problem isnt the fed, its the idiots in charge of the fed. The fed is great in theory, but the fact is it is run by people who have political agendas. I'm not sure what is worse, free market based with sometimes unpredictable fluctuations or the secretive political agenda fed.
Old 01-08-2008, 03:13 PM wingedbuttmonkey is offline  
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#33  

Supafly TNT
 
The problem at the FED is that it loans money to the United States Government for all its expenditures at interest, when before the Fed was established, the government would print the money according to the amount of Gold it held in Treasury. IE, the Gold Standard.

The federal reserve bank has 5 board members who are not the shareholders of the bank. All they are are employees whom act as a conduit between the Shareholders of the bank, which don't want to be discovered, and the US Congress. All of those interest profits that the US Govmt has to pay go to specific shareholders who hold CLASS A stock in the bank.

The bank does not publish who owns the Class A Stock, which under regulation of Securities and Exchange Commission, if you look up any private company even on Yahoo finance, you can see who the main shareholders are.

Essentially we have a secret cabbal of owners of the Federal Reserve Bank. Nobody knows who they are, and nobody is willing to talk about it. They are reaping gargantuan profits off the government, and the burden to pay lies on the US Citizens via the INCOME TAX.

Now that we have accumulated a 65.9 Trillion dollar debt, people are asking questions as to who owns the Federal Reserve Bank. Personally I find it critical to have complete transparency as to where our Tax Dollars are going, especially when we have a $65.9 Trillion dollar debt that nobody wants to acknowledge.

Another huge problem with the Fed is that they are able to cause inflation at any time by lowering interest rates. This much control of our nations money should not be held by a group of people whom nobody knows about, there should be complete transparency.


That's why I am supporting Ron Paul for the presidency, because he wants America to have its own ability to print its money and control inflation because you can only print as much money as there are in Gold reserves. The Fed has sucked the American citizen of its hard earned money via the income tax since 1913, and its gotten to the point that it is crushing our whole country.

Research the Federal Reserve Bank, and consider Ron Paul before casting your votes.

Cheers
Old 01-29-2008, 01:05 AM Supafly TNT is offline  
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#34  

LegendKiller
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supafly TNT View Post
The problem at the FED is that it loans money to the United States Government for all its expenditures at interest, when before the Fed was established, the government would print the money according to the amount of Gold it held in Treasury. IE, the Gold Standard.

The federal reserve bank has 5 board members who are not the shareholders of the bank. All they are are employees whom act as a conduit between the Shareholders of the bank, which don't want to be discovered, and the US Congress. All of those interest profits that the US Govmt has to pay go to specific shareholders who hold CLASS A stock in the bank.

The bank does not publish who owns the Class A Stock, which under regulation of Securities and Exchange Commission, if you look up any private company even on Yahoo finance, you can see who the main shareholders are.

Essentially we have a secret cabbal of owners of the Federal Reserve Bank. Nobody knows who they are, and nobody is willing to talk about it. They are reaping gargantuan profits off the government, and the burden to pay lies on the US Citizens via the INCOME TAX.

Now that we have accumulated a 65.9 Trillion dollar debt, people are asking questions as to who owns the Federal Reserve Bank. Personally I find it critical to have complete transparency as to where our Tax Dollars are going, especially when we have a $65.9 Trillion dollar debt that nobody wants to acknowledge.

Another huge problem with the Fed is that they are able to cause inflation at any time by lowering interest rates. This much control of our nations money should not be held by a group of people whom nobody knows about, there should be complete transparency.


That's why I am supporting Ron Paul for the presidency, because he wants America to have its own ability to print its money and control inflation because you can only print as much money as there are in Gold reserves. The Fed has sucked the American citizen of its hard earned money via the income tax since 1913, and its gotten to the point that it is crushing our whole country.

Research the Federal Reserve Bank, and consider Ron Paul before casting your votes.

Cheers

Hey, another ignorant idiot. And he votes for Ron Paul.

WHO KNEWED!?!?
Old 01-29-2008, 05:26 AM LegendKiller is offline  
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#35  

cromicus
I act tough on genmay, but real life im a pussy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supafly TNT View Post
The problem at the FED is that it loans money to the United States Government for all its expenditures at interest, when before the Fed was established, the government would print the money according to the amount of Gold it held in Treasury. IE, the Gold Standard.

The federal reserve bank has 5 board members who are not the shareholders of the bank. All they are are employees whom act as a conduit between the Shareholders of the bank, which don't want to be discovered, and the US Congress. All of those interest profits that the US Govmt has to pay go to specific shareholders who hold CLASS A stock in the bank.

The bank does not publish who owns the Class A Stock, which under regulation of Securities and Exchange Commission, if you look up any private company even on Yahoo finance, you can see who the main shareholders are.

Essentially we have a secret cabbal of owners of the Federal Reserve Bank. Nobody knows who they are, and nobody is willing to talk about it. They are reaping gargantuan profits off the government, and the burden to pay lies on the US Citizens via the INCOME TAX.

Now that we have accumulated a 65.9 Trillion dollar debt, people are asking questions as to who owns the Federal Reserve Bank. Personally I find it critical to have complete transparency as to where our Tax Dollars are going, especially when we have a $65.9 Trillion dollar debt that nobody wants to acknowledge.

Another huge problem with the Fed is that they are able to cause inflation at any time by lowering interest rates. This much control of our nations money should not be held by a group of people whom nobody knows about, there should be complete transparency.


That's why I am supporting Ron Paul for the presidency, because he wants America to have its own ability to print its money and control inflation because you can only print as much money as there are in Gold reserves. The Fed has sucked the American citizen of its hard earned money via the income tax since 1913, and its gotten to the point that it is crushing our whole country.

Research the Federal Reserve Bank, and consider Ron Paul before casting your votes.

Cheers
Wow. The truth is basically the opposite of everything you just said. Part of me thinks that you're an economic genius, because only someone who knows all the right answers would be able to say something so consistently incorrect.
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Last edited by cromicus; 01-29-2008 at 01:41 PM..
Old 01-29-2008, 01:40 PM cromicus is offline  
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#36  

Jason
 
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Wow. The truth is basically the opposite of everything you just said. Part of me thinks that you're an economic genius, because only someone who knows all the right answers would be able to say something so consistently incorrect.

really the only part that was wrong was about the 65.9 trillion dollar debt. It is more like 10, but with future commitments does reach the stated value. I wouldn't consider referring to it as "debt" so much as "commitment to run further into debt"
Old 01-29-2008, 02:07 PM Jason is offline  
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#37  

LegendKiller
 
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really the only part that was wrong was about the 65.9 trillion dollar debt. It is more like 10, but with future commitments does reach the stated value. I wouldn't consider referring to it as "debt" so much as "commitment to run further into debt"

No, it's not just that. Everything else is wrong too. Cromicus is absolutely correct.
Old 01-29-2008, 04:31 PM LegendKiller is offline  
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#38  

Jason
 
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No, it's not just that. Everything else is wrong too. Cromicus is absolutely correct.

Then break it apart piece by piece and tell why each part, or even each paragraph, is wrong.
Old 01-29-2008, 06:18 PM Jason is offline  
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#39  

LegendKiller
 
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Then break it apart piece by piece and tell why each part, or even each paragraph, is wrong.

Would it matter if I did?

Here I'll just rep0st what I have before. I am lazy.


I'll start off with my traditional post.


Here's a nice dose of reality for RPbots who think the Fed is evil. Try to reply to it, if you can.


1. The Fed is *not* a private company. It operates under Congressional mandate and is owned 100% by the member banks within the system. *Every* bank that is part of the Federal Reserve system, which is more or less every bank in the country, ownes shares in that system. This includes Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase, Bank of New York Mellon, Wachovia, Washinton Mutual, LeSalle, TFC, Wells Fargo, Bank Atlantic, Commerce Bank, 5/3rd, or any other bank you can think of. Since those banks are *PUBLIC* companies, the Fed is essentially owned by *EVERYBODY* in the country.

People think that the Fed should be abolished and that Congress should take over managing the currency. Sure. Perhaps 200 years ago when we didn't vote in dipshits. However, the short-term nature of Congressional "worries" (aka, getting re-elected) and the long-term concern of managing the economy, are not congruent. Thus, the two should absolutely be delinked.

The Fed is also very secret because, if it weren't, then the markets would be extremely volatile. Looking into the Fed on a minute basis would be akin to allowing people direct access to *every* board of directors of *every* company for *every* meeting. That would introduce tremendous problems, as people tossing around ideas, problems, solutions, and long-term projections would then be prone to conjecture in the market. The financial markets would be so stutter-stopped and jagged by the news that risk would skyrocket. Asking for a lot more transparency would stifle the Fed's ability to manage thigns on a long-term basis.

The Fed pays the government more than 80bn in revenue per year. *ALL* profits go to the government. Profits are from revenues on lending money to all banks, that money is from member banks and the government. The interest charged by the Fed, from banks, is then dividended out to the member banks (they deserve return for their lending), the remainder goes to the government.

2. Get a clue about the "government". WE spend the money the way WE want it. People try to pretend that the government is not representative of us, yet we vote them in. The Fed acts in accordance with the needs of the government, which passes laws to spend. WE vote in those who pass the laws. As soon as WE learn that WE need to either cut spending or raise taxes, then WE will not have to borrow.

3. Inflation doesn't occur just because currency circulation increases. If that were the case then we'd be facing drastically increasing inflation. Money can and should grow with the economic growth of the country. The more goods, services, and wealth in the country, the more currency should be circulated. Otherwise you are in a deflationary system.

Inflation occurs for several reasons. That includes growth resulting in wage increases which then floats into the system. It's also caused by the input of foreign goods into the system, which may be increasing in price (importing inflation). There are dozens of other reasons.

4. The problem with the Fed is that it has the problem of trying to balance short-term movements with long-term projections using historical events. Anybody who is a quantitative person involved in statistics knows that history is a very imperfect predictor of the future. You are always behind the curve. When inflation finally rears it's ugly head, it's too late and you are trying to play catch-up. AFAIK the only time the Fed was able to head off inflation was the mid 90's when they did pre-emptive rate increases, which turned out to be very accurate. However, those were gut feelings, not exact data driven events.

Furthermore, economics, at it's heart, is still an art, not a science. It is impossible to gauge human psychology when it comes down to these events. Thus, managing the growth of an economy that is unpredictable and un projectionable is more or less an impossible task.

Thus, the movements of the Fed are imperfect. Additionally, they will never be popular because everybody wants growth to be predictable. However, irrational exuberance, irrational pessimism, and the bubble mindset make it impossible to predict exactly how to stimulate or reign in the economy.

Additionally, the very nature of the Fed is to try to be as hands-off as possible without letting the economy run rampant. However, the ability of the economy to go through boom and busts have led to some of the greatest inventions and times of innovation and genius this country has ever seen. This destructive creativism is essential to continuing a modern country.

Blame the Fed all you want for the problems. However, until you come up with a viable and implementable solution, then shut the fuck up. I am sure some dipshit will go on and on about gold. But guess what? Gold is a commodity that is prone to speculation worse than a currency. It's deflationary in nature. It's inflexible, as the 1930's proved since *ALL* countries still o nthe gold standard took, on average, about 5 more years to even begin to recover.

Our currency is backed by something a lot less problematic, the US economy, the US military, and US innovation. It may not be fungible like gold, but is sure as hell gives you a vested interest.



In conclusion, let me ask people this. If the Fed, with a Fiat currency, were so evil and the root of all inflation, then how was inflation caused in the 1960s and 1970s when the Fed had far less control over rates. It had far less power to put bills into the market. The government had essentially no debt and the amount of currency into circulation. How then, was the Fed able to raise rates and get inflation under control so quickly? I thought the Fed was evil and wanted inflation?

What then, about years prior to that? When inflation was unpredictable, wild, high, low, inflationary, deflationary, and the economy was much more difficult to manage? Was that such a great time then? Additionally, you are talking about 100 years ago when managing an economy 1/200th the size was relatively easy. Now, using the same system, woudl be impossible and would lead to our collapse.

You people are so f'ing ignorant of the facts of the Fed, it's purpose, economcis, and above all, HISTORY and HUMAN PSYCHOLOGY.


I edited out the "insulting" parts so RPBs don't get their undies in a bunch.

Last edited by LegendKiller; 01-29-2008 at 06:24 PM..
Old 01-29-2008, 06:21 PM LegendKiller is offline  
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#40  

Xayd
 
they don't have time to be that upset about it, they're too busy punching away at their blogs a new conspiracy theory of why he's pulled 3% of the vote in florida, i'm sure.
Old 01-29-2008, 06:33 PM Xayd is offline  
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#41  

LegendKiller
 
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they don't have time to be that upset about it, they're too busy punching away at their blogs a new conspiracy theory of why he's pulled 3% of the vote in florida, i'm sure.

OMG, you mean that internet polls aren't representative of the whole nation!?!?!? SAY IT AINT so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111one
Old 01-29-2008, 06:38 PM LegendKiller is offline  
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#42  

wingedbuttmonkey
 
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Originally Posted by Xayd View Post
they don't have time to be that upset about it, they're too busy punching away at their blogs a new conspiracy theory of why he's pulled 3% of the vote in florida, i'm sure.

He pulled 3% because he stayed clear of florida. If he had done heavy marketing like the others he might have got 10% tops, probably more likely 5-7%. And don't let Willy construct your entire view of Ron Paul supporters. Just because he is the most vocal here doesn't mean he speaks for the rest of us.
Old 01-29-2008, 07:05 PM wingedbuttmonkey is offline  
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#43  

LegendKiller
 
For some reason, all I hear is crickets chirping. Where's the witty replies, swift and correct rebuttals, intelligent posts?

Ohh that's right, all you got is idiotic cut-and-paste posts and you tube videos.

.
Old 01-30-2008, 06:55 PM LegendKiller is offline  
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#44  

BigFuzzyArchon
 
 
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For some reason, all I hear is crickets chirping. Where's the witty replies, swift and correct rebuttals, intelligent posts?

Ohh that's right, all you got is idiotic cut-and-paste posts and you tube videos.

.

the internet is changing the way people spread ideas and information
Old 01-30-2008, 07:07 PM BigFuzzyArchon is offline  
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