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Gibonius
 
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Originally Posted by AppleBoy View Post
Let me illustrate. I estimate that this square in front of my face contains 100,000 molecules of atmosphere. Of those 100,000 only 38 are CO2; 38 out of a hundred thousand. That makes it a trace component. Let me ask a key question: how can this tiny trace upset the entire balance of the climate of Earth? It can’t. That’s all there is to it; it can’t.
Not going to bother with the rest of the article (he has some good points), but:

This is some really fucking stupid logic right here. The absolute concentration is not necessarily important, people should know this from freshman chemistry. A very obvious and relevant example: CFCs. They had an extremely low concentration (orders of magnitude lower than CO2), but they had a tremendous impact on the atmosphere because they were extremely reactive.

Regarding greenhouse gases, you have to consider the concentration multiplied by the IR oscillator strength. CO2 has an extraordinarily high IR oscillator strength. Most atmospheric molecules have zero IR strength. Nitrogen, oxygen, and argon are infrared inactive, these comprise most of the Earth's atmosphere. Water is IR active, and has a relatively high concentration and a moderate oscillator strength. It's by far the biggest greenhouse gas. CO2 is #2, fairly low concentration but GIGANTIC oscillator strength. It does play a significant role, despite only being "38 parts per 100,000."

Of course that's not the whole story, the real question is what are the interactions between CO2 and the rest of the Earth. If increasing CO2 lowers another greenhouse gas, then it may not raise temperatures. We really don't understand all the sinks and leaks. CO2 is undeniably a greenhouse gas, but raising concentrations may not increase global temperatures because of the complexity of the system.
Old 06-14-2008, 11:47 AM Gibonius is offline  
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AppleBoy
 
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Not going to bother with the rest of the article (he has some good points), but:

This is some really fucking stupid logic right here. The absolute concentration is not necessarily important, people should know this from freshman chemistry. A very obvious and relevant example: CFCs. They had an extremely low concentration (orders of magnitude lower than CO2), but they had a tremendous impact on the atmosphere because they were extremely reactive.

Regarding greenhouse gases, you have to consider the concentration multiplied by the IR oscillator strength. CO2 has an extraordinarily high IR oscillator strength. Most atmospheric molecules have zero IR strength. Nitrogen, oxygen, and argon are infrared inactive, these comprise most of the Earth's atmosphere. Water is IR active, and has a relatively high concentration and a moderate oscillator strength. It's by far the biggest greenhouse gas. CO2 is #2, fairly low concentration but GIGANTIC oscillator strength. It does play a significant role, despite only being "38 parts per 100,000."

Of course that's not the whole story, the real question is what are the interactions between CO2 and the rest of the Earth. If increasing CO2 lowers another greenhouse gas, then it may not raise temperatures. We really don't understand all the sinks and leaks. CO2 is undeniably a greenhouse gas, but raising concentrations may not increase global temperatures because of the complexity of the system.

Ok I see what your saying, but why cant we get this type of critiquing in the global warming alarmist arguments. Seems like people can get away with blanket statements and vague science when pushing an al gore agenda.

I am not trying to be a smartass, but really, is it just because its less intimidating? Do most feel its easier to be pro GW rather than against GW? Has it become taboo to be on this side of the fence? it would be an interested social experiment.

Last edited by AppleBoy; 06-14-2008 at 01:20 PM..
Old 06-14-2008, 01:17 PM AppleBoy is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Quote:
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Ok I see what your saying, but why cant we get this type of critiquing in the global warming alarmist arguments. Seems like people can get away with blanket statements and vague science when pushing an al gore agenda.

I am not trying to be a smartass, but really, is it just because its less intimidating? Do most feel its easier to be pro GW rather than against GW? Has it become taboo to be on this side of the fence? it would be an interested social experiment.

They get hit with a dozen ads a day with hollywood types screaming about global warming.

Then heads of departments who disagree with GW get fired and labeled a crackpot like the paleoclimatologist that predicted the Katrina hurricane season due to weather that corresponded to the Camile hurricane season of the 60's.


So they don't hear that there is not even close to a consensus that there is even any GW at all let alone anthro GW.
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Old 06-14-2008, 01:26 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Badger_sly
 
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John Coleman, Weather channel founder.

Comments Before the San Diego Chamber of Commerce,

"You may want to give credit where credit is due to Al Gore and his global warming campaign the next time you fill your car with gasoline, because there is a direct connection between Global Warming and four dollar a gallon gas. It is shocking, but true, to learn that the entire Global Warming frenzy is based on the environmentalist’s attack on fossil fuels, particularly gasoline. All this big time science, international meetings, thick research papers, dire threats for the future; all of it, comes down to their claim that the carbon dioxide in the exhaust from your car and in the smoke stacks from our power plants is destroying the climate of planet Earth. What an amazing fraud; what a scam.
........

All very true. Many that were caught up in the man-made gw fad are seeing the light and coming around to reality. There's a long way to go yet, though.
Old 06-16-2008, 01:11 PM Badger_sly is offline  
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TheMorlock
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While stuck in traffic tonight I was skipping channels trying to find the local traffic channel that deals with interstate road delays.

2002 had a double solar maximum. Now we are heading into a solar minimum evidenced by the almost total lack of sun spot activity. And some scientists are worried that we are heading for another Maunder Minimum and a new Little Ice Age
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Old 06-16-2008, 11:47 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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jubjub
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Old 06-17-2008, 08:30 PM jubjub is offline  
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BigFuzzyArchon
 
 
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Being forced to add all that dumb shit to his house is a tax for making so much money of this idea. He is still a politician who makes money on fooling Americans into believing an idea no different than the war on terror.
Old 06-17-2008, 09:48 PM BigFuzzyArchon is offline  
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Badger_sly
 
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While stuck in traffic tonight I was skipping channels trying to find the local traffic channel that deals with interstate road delays.

2002 had a double solar maximum. Now we are heading into a solar minimum evidenced by the almost total lack of sun spot activity. And some scientists are worried that we are heading for another Maunder Minimum and a new Little Ice Age

But Gore demands his carbon money!!!
Old 06-18-2008, 12:19 PM Badger_sly is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Once Again

Where did the losers that would not believe that data had been altered go? I have some ball sweat for you to lick. And its not even the altered data I once posted links to.

Sorry if my spunk gets up your nose(NOT)
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Old 06-21-2008, 08:26 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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TheMorlock
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My point was simply that there's more to the story than "There's more ice in Antarctica." Much like everything else with global warming, the jury is still out on what's happening and why.


Come on, that's a shabby argument. You could reverse it and use it to discount the data you're using the DENY global warming. The modern theory is either right or wrong on its own merits, what people said 20 years ago really has little relevence.

time to change your tune?
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Old 06-21-2008, 08:32 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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I don't believe any of the global warming hype, however I think our climate is definitely becoming more unstable, I feel like every year, the seasons are encountering a shift.
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Old 06-21-2008, 08:34 PM AbortTheFetus is offline  
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TheMorlock
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I don't believe any of the global warming hype, however I think our climate is definitely becoming more unstable, I feel like every year, the seasons are encountering a shift.

The city I now live in has not even approached the average temp it had in 1991

If there were indeed a .5 c increase the global temp the city I live in would have 16 days over 101 degrees like it had the year I moved here.

Every actual measurement in every field of study shows that the earth is cooling. and has been for the last 80 years


OOOOppppSSS!!!
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Old 06-21-2008, 08:43 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Hello stupid fucks?
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Old 06-21-2008, 08:49 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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TheMorlock
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bump?
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Old 06-21-2008, 09:16 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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AppleBoy
 
man made global warmers have nothing to argue.. all the real data points towards showing its BS...

/thread.. we win.
Old 06-22-2008, 12:02 AM AppleBoy is offline  
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