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red|dragon
 
I just don't feel comfortable with all these students walking around with guns. It's like a doctor performing brain surgery. There are doctors that got A's on their tests and there are doctors who might have cheated and doctors who may have been C students. You'd want the smartest doctor, the one who got A's, to be performing brain surgery on you. However, since it would be hard to obtain that information, we have to rely on reputation and word of mouth from others and past experiences. There is always a rotten egg. What if I get stuck with some CCW student who doesn't know what the hell he is doing? Do CCW people have to go back for training regularly? Or can they take the test once and be good for life?

...just asking questions and trying to learn, not bitching or moaning
Old 04-23-2008, 03:19 PM red|dragon is offline  
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Originally Posted by red|dragon View Post
I just don't feel comfortable with all these students walking around with guns. It's like a doctor performing brain surgery. There are doctors that got A's on their tests and there are doctors who might have cheated and doctors who may have been C students. You'd want the smartest doctor, the one who got A's, to be performing brain surgery on you. However, since it would be hard to obtain that information, we have to rely on reputation and word of mouth from others and past experiences. There is always a rotten egg. What if I get stuck with some CCW student who doesn't know what the hell he is doing? Do CCW people have to go back for training regularly? Or can they take the test once and be good for life?

...just asking questions and trying to learn, not bitching or moaning




In Nevada, if a person has a CCW then they have completed safety, competency and marksmanship exams with their weapon.

Even as "rare" as school shootings are, you are more likely to be killed in a school shooting than accidentally killed by a CCW holder.

Statistics are your friend.
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:22 PM Zangmonkey is offline  
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Mr. Greg
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Originally Posted by red|dragon View Post
I just don't feel comfortable with all these students walking around with guns.

What state do you live in?

Ever stop and think that once you leave campus grounds, those EXACT SAME students that would be carrying on campus are carrying around town? Do you not feel comfortable anywhere now? If you do feel comfortable outside of campus but not on, why is that? Why don't you accept people carrying on campus, yet accept people carrying off campus? We're trying to tell you a simple fact here: Those are the SAME people.

Quote:
What if I get stuck with some CCW student who doesn't know what the hell he is doing? Do CCW people have to go back for training regularly? Or can they take the test once and be good for life?
A lot of states require training before obtaining the permit, and most permits expire after a set number of years, and you must go through the recertification to renew.

If someone with a CCW permit shoots someone by mistake, they should, and will, be held accountable for their actions. It's not like their CCW is equivalent to James Bond's License to Kill.
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:27 PM Mr. Greg is offline  
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twitchy10
 
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I don't care about malls, office parks or other places. This thread is about "students", first word in the thread title.

you need to do a little research and make sure you know what you are talking about. the thread is not just about students carrying. the title of the thread is the title of the organization. Students for Concealed Carry. It is a student organization who advocates that CCW holders should be able to carry on campuses.

Quote from their website:
"Students for Concealed Carry on campus is a non-partisan, grassroots organization comprised of over 25,000 college students, faculty members, parents, and concerned citizens (about 90% college students and 10% faculty, parents, and concerned citizens) who support the right of concealed handgun license holders to carry concealed handguns on college campuses."

The fact is that these same people who are already carrying in malls, office parks, or other places could quite possibly be the same people who would carry onto a campus. There are not random shootings in the places by CCW holders so why would there be on a campus?
Old 04-23-2008, 03:30 PM twitchy10 is offline  
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#154  

texmaster
 
There were a ton of guys in their early 20s in my CHL class. I support them.
Old 04-23-2008, 03:31 PM texmaster is offline  
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Originally Posted by red|dragon View Post
I just don't feel comfortable with all these students walking around with guns. It's like a doctor performing brain surgery. There are doctors that got A's on their tests and there are doctors who might have cheated and doctors who may have been C students. You'd want the smartest doctor, the one who got A's, to be performing brain surgery on you. However, since it would be hard to obtain that information, we have to rely on reputation and word of mouth from others and past experiences. There is always a rotten egg. What if I get stuck with some CCW student who doesn't know what the hell he is doing? Do CCW people have to go back for training regularly? Or can they take the test once and be good for life?

...just asking questions and trying to learn, not bitching or moaning

Where do you live? If it's in the US chances are you're in a state that allows concealed carry and you're walking around every day with people - including students - carrying in the grocery store, at the park and pretty much everywhere outside of a campus or federal building. Are you uncomfortable with that knowledge for some reason?

The chances of there being a rotten egg are less than the chances of one of those students using their gun to stop a crime. Either a mugging or a rape or a mass shooting, all of which more common than the rare CCW holder just shooting people for no reason or because he got in an argument.

While you may want the smartest doctor - and in this case that would equate to having a private security detail around you at all times - if your only choices are the B/C average neurosurgeon or dying of a brain tumor, I would imagine that you'd still want the surgery.
Old 04-23-2008, 03:38 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Originally Posted by red|dragon View Post
I just don't feel comfortable with all these students walking around with guns.


This is part of your problem. 'All these' is a relatively small number. You are acting like there is going to be a campus raffle and they are going to hand out 1,000 glocks at each campus. It is unlikely that allowing CCW holders to carry on campus will have a significant effect on the number of CCW holders at each campus.
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:56 PM Renork is offline  
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red|dragon
 
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:57 PM red|dragon is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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Originally Posted by red|dragon View Post
virginia

Then not only are you in a state where people are walking around you armed every day but there's even a school in your state that allows students to carry concealed weapons and it's certainly not a hotbed of texas gunfights.

http://www.brcc.edu/student/Handbook/policy/rights.htm

Quote:
Carrying firearms or other weapons on college property or at any college activity except as explicitly authorized for instructional purposes or as exempted by Virginia Code 18.2-308 et seq.
The relevant state code is the one that regulates CCW.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-308
Old 04-23-2008, 04:09 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Xayd
 
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In Nevada, if a person has a CCW then they have completed safety, competency and marksmanship exams with their weapon.

Even as "rare" as school shootings are, you are more likely to be killed in a school shooting than accidentally killed by a CCW holder.

Statistics are your friend.

and you're more likely to be struck by lightning than killed in a school shooting.

statistics are your enemy.
Old 04-23-2008, 07:41 PM Xayd is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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and you're more likely to be struck by lightning than killed in a school shooting.

statistics are your enemy.

but not more likely than to be the victim of a mugging, assault or, (for the chicas) rape

school shootings are the worst case scenario of defenseless students but there are many more reasons to carry and none to ban it

I don't know how many times this needs to be repeated but the eleven schools that allow concealed carry on campus have not had a single incident of gun theft, gun accidents, or crimes committed with guns.
Old 04-23-2008, 08:01 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Xayd
 
there are lots of reasons to ban it.

firearms aren't allowed in sporting events, court houses, concerts etc. either, because of the likelihood of adding fuel to the panic fire if a shot goes off in such a crowded place.

there have been no incidents because college campuses don't let students carry guns. i don't know why you think that's such a huge point in your favor, when by default it isn't.
Old 04-23-2008, 09:38 PM Xayd is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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Originally Posted by Xayd View Post
there are lots of reasons to ban it.

firearms aren't allowed in sporting events, court houses, concerts etc. either, because of the likelihood of adding fuel to the panic fire if a shot goes off in such a crowded place.

there have been no incidents because college campuses don't let students carry guns. i don't know why you think that's such a huge point in your favor, when by default it isn't.

Then go ahead and list the reasons. Because danger to the public is certainly not one of them since it's already been shown, time after time, that CCW does not increase crime rates, that students who carry on campus do not open fire for no reason and that both can act as a deterrent and the former has been proven to stop crime in many cases.

Firearms are not banned at all sporting events, court houses and concerts. This is done usually at the state level and in some the only restrictions come from the federal government's "gun free zone" laws. Sometimes the owners of private property - such as concert halls and stadiums - set their own rules, but it doesn't mean they're being logical in their decision. Firearms are banned at most major sporting events and other densely populated events because of an irrational fear of terrorism, not because there has ever been an incident where someone legally carrying a concealed weapon has made a situation worse in such an event.

And again,

THERE ARE ELEVEN (11) COLLEGES IN THE UNITED STATES THAT DO ALLOW STUDENTS WITH THE APPROPRIATE PERMITS TO CARRY GUNS ON CAMPUS. THOSE ARE THE ONES I REFERRED TO AS HAVING NO INCIDENTS.

Read. Comprehend. Post.

Last edited by SemperFly; 04-23-2008 at 09:52 PM..
Old 04-23-2008, 09:49 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Zangmonkey
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Originally Posted by Xayd View Post
and you're more likely to be struck by lightning than killed in a school shooting.

statistics are your enemy.

So I don't play on hilltops in lightning storms. Want kids to stop going to school? one is a predictable, avoidable threat, the other is not
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Old 04-23-2008, 10:21 PM Zangmonkey is offline  
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Xayd
 
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Then go ahead and list the reasons. Because danger to the public is certainly not one of them since it's already been shown, time after time, that CCW does not increase crime rates, that students who carry on campus do not open fire for no reason and that both can act as a deterrent and the former has been proven to stop crime in many cases.

Firearms are not banned at all sporting events, court houses and concerts. This is done usually at the state level and in some the only restrictions come from the federal government's "gun free zone" laws. Sometimes the owners of private property - such as concert halls and stadiums - set their own rules, but it doesn't mean they're being logical in their decision. Firearms are banned at most major sporting events and other densely populated events because of an irrational fear of terrorism, not because there has ever been an incident where someone legally carrying a concealed weapon has made a situation worse in such an event.

And again,

THERE ARE ELEVEN (11) COLLEGES IN THE UNITED STATES THAT DO ALLOW STUDENTS WITH THE APPROPRIATE PERMITS TO CARRY GUNS ON CAMPUS. THOSE ARE THE ONES I REFERRED TO AS HAVING NO INCIDENTS.

Read. Comprehend. Post.

repeating the same point that was just dismantled in different size font doesn't make it seem more plausible.

11 is less than 1%. 11 for the purposes of this argument is zero.

read, fail to comprehend, change font size, repost. go ahead you know you want to!
Old 04-24-2008, 04:12 AM Xayd is offline  
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