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SemperFly
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UID=30151 View Post
There is no benefit to carrying a gun around.

Being able to protect yourself instead of hoping there's a cop right around the corner isn't a benefit?
Old 04-21-2008, 03:24 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UID=30151 View Post
There is no benefit to carrying a gun around.

Tell that to a criminal. They have enough advantages as it is, there's no real reason to give them another.

As a deterrent I don't know how well this would work, but that's not really the point. People should have the right to defend themselves, whether at the park or in a school.

I also don't see a huge rush of college students to go out and get a CCW permit if it becomes legal to carry on campus; a lot of people have no idea how the laws work as it is, and this would probably mostly affect those that already would have or do have their permit, and want to be able to extend their ability to protect themselves while also at school. I don't find that unreasonable.

It's one thing if you disagree with carry laws in general, or firearms regulations as a whole, but the way I see it as it is right now you're guaranteeing that in the event of a shooting at a college, the only person with the means to quickly react are doing so unlawfully. I was never really impressed with the campus security in college, and while I'm not sure if I would have gotten my CCW if I could have carried on campus in order to protect myself and others, I would've felt safer knowing there's somebody that did.
Old 04-21-2008, 03:44 PM bobsmith is offline  
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uh, you expect millions of people to go through an unnecessary test when they haven't done anything wrong? you realize that you can't just walk into a shrink's office and "get tested" for mental disorders, yes?

Kind of works for automobiles doesn't it?
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Old 04-21-2008, 03:47 PM Straw Man is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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Kind of works for automobiles doesn't it?

I was referring to a psychiatric consult. you don't need to be checked out by a shrink to drive a car
Old 04-21-2008, 03:49 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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Originally Posted by FlyNavy View Post
uh, you expect millions of people to go through an unnecessary test when they haven't done anything wrong? you realize that you can't just walk into a shrink's office and "get tested" for mental disorders, yes?

I don't agree with that. Should people not have to go through a driving test when they first get their license because they havn't gotten in an accident yet?

Edit: NVM. I will say though there should be an extensive background check to ensure people being granted this, although I don't see why carrying a gun to school is such an important requirement.
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Old 04-21-2008, 03:51 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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I was referring to a psychiatric consult. you don't need to be checked out by a shrink to drive a car
You were referring to people not having to prove their capability. I haven't done anything wrong, I want my fucking car right fucking now. Oh wait that's pretty fucking absurd, but it doesn't apply to guns. Ok. Yeah, nothing does.
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Old 04-21-2008, 03:52 PM Straw Man is offline  
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I don't agree with that. Should people not have to go through a driving test when they first get their license because they havn't gotten in an accident yet?

This is the reason ...that when men get to install wombs on themselves, I'll beg you to send me semen
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Old 04-21-2008, 03:53 PM Straw Man is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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You were referring to people not having to prove their capability. I haven't done anything wrong, I want my fucking car right fucking now. Oh wait that's pretty fucking absurd, but it doesn't apply to guns. Ok. Yeah, nothing does.

no, I wasn't

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Not enough IMO, they should be tested, not just "not have been diagnosed".
Old 04-21-2008, 03:56 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Originally Posted by Tom Kazansky View Post
I don't agree with that. Should people not have to go through a driving test when they first get their license because they havn't gotten in an accident yet?

Edit: NVM. I will say though there should be an extensive background check to ensure people being granted this, although I don't see why carrying a gun to school is such an important requirement.

goddamnit, y'all need to read MY ENTIRE POST
Old 04-21-2008, 03:56 PM SemperFly is offline  
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This is the reason ...that when men get to install wombs on themselves, I'll beg you to send me semen

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Old 04-21-2008, 03:59 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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goddamnit, y'all need to read MY ENTIRE POST

right, it's not like we've been through this before with your archaic amendments
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Old 04-21-2008, 04:01 PM Straw Man is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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right, it's not like we've been through this before with your archaic amendments

doesn't change the fact that you misread my damn post. I was referring to people not being tested for safety training, I was specifically referring to his assertion that people should have to have a psych consult before carrying a firearm
Old 04-21-2008, 04:06 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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Originally Posted by FlyNavy View Post
goddamnit, y'all need to read MY ENTIRE POST

Hence my edit .

I will reiterate though, I don't see why this is such an important requirement. It would really only affect upper year students and classrooms since if I'm not mistaken you have to be at least 21 to qualify for a CCW permit in the first place, and most students are entering college/university by 17 or 18 years of age. They'll be in fourth year at the earliest when they're able to "defend themselves" or their classmates from a potential threat, meaning anyone in a third year class and below is essentially screwed.

Even so, I don't like the potential consequences of flooding a university campus with guns. There was a recent case in Toronto of three army reservists, people who go through military background checks to ensure they have clean records, beating a homeless man to death while drunk. I know you mentioned this earlier, , however people do stupid things when they're drunk. I see fights all the time happening at our campus club on Thursday nights. I'm thinking we're better off in the long run with less lethal weapons on campus.

Also, background checks for this kind of idea would have to be incredibly extensive. You're right, you can't just do some psychological investigation and even if you could, good criminals can fake it. However, Kimveer Gill and Cho both obtained their weapons legally. That's something that just shouldn't happen. What guarantees do you have for me that a CCW permit applicant doesn't have this potential? Bear in mind, I'm saying this as someone who supports gun ownership and prefers limited gun control, but there is a logical limit for this kind of thing and a point where a line has to be drawn.
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Old 04-21-2008, 04:07 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UID=30151 View Post
There is no benefit to carrying a gun around.

I want to see you have that on a pin on your shirt, then walk through some urban downtown areas at night.

I got interviewed by the campus and local newspaper today.
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Old 04-21-2008, 04:08 PM Mr. Greg is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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Even so, I don't like the potential consequences of flooding a university campus with guns.
As opposed to any other place? Campuses would not be "flooded" with guns.
Quote:
There was a recent case in Toronto of three army reservists, people who go through military background checks to ensure they have clean records, beating a homeless man to death while drunk. I know you mentioned this earlier, , however people do stupid things when they're drunk. I see fights all the time happening at our campus club on Thursday nights. I'm thinking we're better off in the long run with less lethal weapons on campus.
And you're assuming that these same kids who carry would also be getting drunk while carrying. That's a mighty strange assumption considering we don't ever hear about this kind of stuff happening in states where concealed carry is the norm. How many times do you hear about shootouts from lawful, CCW-carrying people just because they got drunk at a bar?

What part of this aren't people getting? The laws against guns on campus is not stopping a single, solitary person from bringing a gun on campus.
Quote:
Also, background checks for this kind of idea would have to be incredibly extensive. You're right, you can't just do some psychological investigation and even if you could, good criminals can fake it. However, Kimveer Gill and Cho both obtained their weapons legally. That's something that just shouldn't happen. What guarantees do you have for me that a CCW permit applicant doesn't have this potential? Bear in mind, I'm saying this as someone who supports gun ownership and prefers limited gun control, but there is a logical limit for this kind of thing and a point where a line has to be drawn.
It's something that shouldn't happen but if they hadn't been able to get their weapons legally do you honestly think it would have prevented anything? That they would have just shrugged their shoulders and gone on with their happy little lives?

Neither Gil nor Cho had permits to carry concealed weapons. What they did was already illegal and not one law stopped them.

There is no logic to banning guns on campus any more than banning them in grocery stores or public parks. Just because someone is in college does not mean that responsibility goes flying out the window. If most people who carried weren't responsible about it in the first place we would already see a rash of gun violence committed by CCW holders. But we don't. Those with permits to carry concealed weapons are less likely to commit any crime, let alone shooting people for looking at them the wrong way.
Old 04-21-2008, 04:16 PM SemperFly is offline  
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