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dio
 
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Paying for women.

So I am at sort of a dilemma here on how to relate to women financially, and it has to do with paying for them. I don't know if I really want a 'wife' in the old-fashioned sense of where they stay at home, you pay for everything they do, pay for their car, pay for their retirement, food, everything. I feel like I want more of a modern women who has her own shit together, takes care of herself, and we are just together because we enjoy each other, and she is not dependent on me.

I just got out of a relationship where the girl was generally unable to fully take care of herself, and it just got so annoying, its like having a pet human. You have to feed her, buy her things, take her out to do things, it gets tiring. And I just got the general feeling that I would be so much happier with a girl who was more on the same level of me financially.

I also watched my parents marriage fall apart because my mom was a stay at home mom, and over the years it just dragged my dad down and down being the sole provider, until they divorced in very harsh feelings. Now my mom, with like 25 years lost of career development can barely survive with her skillset and the amount of money she makes. Then she took half my dads retirement in allimony, so now my dads going to have to work into his 60's to retire. And seeing that whole fiasco just makes me think that getting yourself into such a situation is just fucked. It ends up messing up both people in the end if one person ends up carrying all the load.

But heres the thing, it seems its so rare to find girls who make enough money to fully take care of themselves. Where are these true modern independent girls that fully take care of themselves financially? I seem to be unable to find any girl my age that passes the $40,000 a year mark, which is what I'd consider to be like the bare minimum of what you need to make a year. Or let me rephrase that, I seem to be unable to find any attractive girl that passes the $40,000 a year mark. Seems like all the attractive girls are working restaurants, coffee shops, retail, as hair dressers, secretaries. It's starting to seem to me like their is an reverse correlation between attractiveness and income level in women. I have no idea if thats true, its just what I'm getting a sense of by the girls I've been encountering.

And I am starting to wonder, despite my parents messed up situation, and despite my annoyance with my last girlfriend. Is it really inevitable that you'll end up paying for a girl to live if you want a reasonably attractive wife? I think throughout my life of ALL the women I've known who were both highly succesfull and highly attractive and I can literally count 4. Thats it, 4. And I know they didn't get to that level of financial success until much later in life, like well into their 30's. Does anyone elses life experience reflect that number as well?

What the hell happened to the feminist movement? Where are all these succesfull, got their shit together like no other women that I always see the movies, the media and feminist movement making a big deal about. Seems like they are still extremely rare. In every company I have worked for, which all the companies paid well, it has always been like 90% men in the workforce. Makes me wonder where are the women in proffesional world? Does any field of high-paying work have like 90% women in it?

I make this thread to really get some differing viewpoints on the subject of paying for your girlfriend/wife to live. As thus far my life experiences have made it seem like an extremely stupid thing to do.
Old 03-08-2012, 08:44 PM dio is offline  
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Gibonius
 
I think this says more about your environment than women. Literally every woman I know is career oriented, because I've put myself on that path and then met women along the way. Many of them are attractive too.

For a lot of people, the idea of the wife sitting at home died decades ago. There are far more career women than not these days, and a pretty good number earn more than their husbands. Not the majority, but enough. If you don't want a kept woman at home, look in different circles.

If you're in IT or engineering, there aren't all that many women.

One side note, most people in the US period don't make $40k+, so of course most women won't. There's also some sociological stuff that leads women to generally seek out less well paid professions.
Old 03-08-2012, 09:35 PM Gibonius is offline  
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Where do you live, how old are you, what's your job, where'd you go to college?
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Old 03-09-2012, 03:06 AM fapling is offline  
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Straw Man
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I don't know how it relates to you as you're from the US, but my s/o is very highly educated, but still kind of chooses to work in bars. She makes more than enough to make ends meet on her own.
I never, and I do mean never, have to pay for any of her shit. I do occasionally, but I'm not expected to do that and we've been pretty clear about this from the start. So like Gib said, I think it's the circles you're probably in, or the type of people you associate with (and I don't mean that in a derogatory or impolite manner, I just can't word it any better).
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Old 03-09-2012, 04:47 AM Straw Man is offline  
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Yup I make waaaay under 40k and I manage on my own.

This includes living on my own for the past 9 years, owning & maintaining a car for the past 10 years.

Money by no means makes someone more independent, it just gives them more spending power.

It's alright to have standards of what your looking for.. But I don't think it's right to put a minimum salary requirement on someone you want to potentially date. You're going to find yourself alone.
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Old 03-09-2012, 09:12 AM spanxxx is offline  
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dio
 
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Yes it must be circles.

Proffesionally I am in the circles of computer science.

Socially I am in the circle of electronic music scene and ravers.

So all boys on the proffesional side and chemically mutated brightly colored girls on the social side :\

Maybe my solution is just to make enough money to make the issue not matter at all.
Old 03-09-2012, 08:51 PM dio is offline  
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dio
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spanxxx View Post
Yup I make waaaay under 40k and I manage on my own.

This includes living on my own for the past 9 years, owning & maintaining a car for the past 10 years.

Money by no means makes someone more independent, it just gives them more spending power.

It's alright to have standards of what your looking for.. But I don't think it's right to put a minimum salary requirement on someone you want to potentially date. You're going to find yourself alone.

How do you figure that less than 40k is enough?

This is how I figure it, each of these numbers are base yearly.
40,000 take home after taxes
- 12,000 rent/mortgage + utiltity bills (electricty, phone internet)
- 1,000 for car insurance
- 1,000 for gas + maintence
- 2,000 a year put towards a new car
- 6,000 for food, toiletries ($500 a month) groceries + eating out
We are at $10,000 left per year now.
And you know your going to spend atleast $4,000 of that on stuff. Electronics, clothes, whatever.
Hopefully you have health insurance and co-pays are reasonable, you may spend another $1,000 on health a year.

That will leave you with $5,000 left over per year.

After 30 years of working at that level your only going to have $200,000 in your retirement.

Is that enough to retire on? Lets hope you don't have a stroke, get cancer, take any serious leave time from work, otherwise that 200,000 will dwindle very fast.

You will basically have to work till you die.

Really it seems to me like you need to be getting atleast 10,000 a month. That will then easily leave you with 2 million after 25 years and you can reasonable retire in your 50's or early 60's, maybe sooner. That is if you start making that amount by the time your 30 and don't go on too many vacations or buy too many fancy cars/houses.

Or am I missing something here about financing and retirements?
Old 03-09-2012, 10:53 PM dio is offline  
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spanxxx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dio View Post
How do you figure that less than 40k is enough?

This is how I figure it, each of these numbers are base yearly.
40,000 take home after taxes
- 12,000 rent/mortgage + utiltity bills (electricty, phone internet)
- 1,000 for car insurance
- 1,000 for gas + maintence
- 2,000 a year put towards a new car
- 6,000 for food, toiletries ($500 a month) groceries + eating out
We are at $10,000 left per year now.
And you know your going to spend atleast $4,000 of that on stuff. Electronics, clothes, whatever.
Hopefully you have health insurance and co-pays are reasonable, you may spend another $1,000 on health a year.

That will leave you with $5,000 left over per year.

After 30 years of working at that level your only going to have $200,000 in your retirement.

Is that enough to retire on? Lets hope you don't have a stroke, get cancer, take any serious leave time from work, otherwise that 200,000 will dwindle very fast.

You will basically have to work till you die.

Really it seems to me like you need to be getting atleast 10,000 a month. That will then easily leave you with 2 million after 25 years and you can reasonable retire in your 50's or early 60's, maybe sooner. That is if you start making that amount by the time your 30 and don't go on too many vacations or buy too many fancy cars/houses.

Or am I missing something here about financing and retirements?

Well based on your numbers we live on complete opposite ends of the spending spectrum.

My taxes from last year say I made 28k.. currently living on about $16k.. which is like $1300 a month and all my bills get paid and i still have money left to put towards debt.

truth be told, i don't have a cent in savings.. nothing towards my retirement.. my plan is moreso to invest in multi-unit properties.. rent them out and they pay the mortgages. when i retire, sell the houses and ba-bam

To me 40k is a lot of money and I could accomplish my goals much quicker by making that money, hence me studying to get a better job.. but I'm a strong believer in the small house movement, i'm a slight minimalist and although i have a car it's not driven daily, I live downtown and walk most places.

if you are truly concerned about saving for your future, perhaps look into your finances and tweak it a bit to get the most of what you make.

also, like someone else mentioned.. it's 2012, most ladies out there have goals of working, but jobs are brutal to obtain right now. Avoid dating girls that love that show housewives of OC.. and if anything does come out of the relationship, that's an extra maybe 28k to go towards your 40k.. and by then, who knows maybe you'll be making more??
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:02 AM spanxxx is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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So all boys on the proffesional side and chemically mutated brightly colored girls on the social side :\

Maybe my solution is just to make enough money to make the issue not matter at all.
I wouldn't focus on the money. If you meet a woman that's serious about her life and her work, things will probably work out fine. You're not all that old (I think), plenty of people make shit money in their 20s then get better off later on if they have the right attitude.

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Originally Posted by dio View Post
How do you figure that less than 40k is enough?

<snip>
After 30 years of working at that level your only going to have $200,000 in your retirement.

Is that enough to retire on? Lets hope you don't have a stroke, get cancer, take any serious leave time from work, otherwise that 200,000 will dwindle very fast.

You will basically have to work till you die.

Really it seems to me like you need to be getting atleast 10,000 a month. That will then easily leave you with 2 million after 25 years and you can reasonable retire in your 50's or early 60's, maybe sooner. That is if you start making that amount by the time your 30 and don't go on too many vacations or buy too many fancy cars/houses.

Or am I missing something here about financing and retirements?

My wife and I lived easily making $22k each as grad students (no kids). I wouldn't want to do it forever, but it's hardly impossible or even particularly painful. That's about the average household income, so it's probably representative. Harder if you have kids, obviously. And who retires in their 50s, almost everybody expects to work until late 60s these days.

You basically have upper-middle class sensibilities and apparently don't realize that not all that many people in this country actually live that way. Obviously life is more comfortable when you make more, but that just isn't life for most people. I think those of us lucky enough to grow up in relatively wealthy areas get a wacked view of reality.
Old 03-10-2012, 01:25 AM Gibonius is offline  
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ERL857
 
My wife and I both work real careers to support each other as a team. Not sure there is anyone out there any more with the mind set of a totally stay at home wife these days.

both of our moms are career driven and were in an upper middle class area of nj so I'm sure some of my perception is a bit skewed. I'm also a product of a divorced home.

All women are going to want to feel special and pampered to a point. Some of it is just biology whether you want to admit or not. people both guys and girl do want to feel wanted our needed.,Gotta have the romance in there and I dont mean candle lit dinners and flowers everyday, unless that's your thing of course.

Not sure what your trouble is.

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Old 03-11-2012, 11:09 AM ERL857 is offline  
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Forever Domon
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dio View Post
How do you figure that less than 40k is enough?

This is how I figure it, each of these numbers are base yearly.
40,000 take home after taxes
- 12,000 rent/mortgage + utiltity bills (electricty, phone internet)
- 1,000 for car insurance
- 1,000 for gas + maintence
- 2,000 a year put towards a new car
- 6,000 for food, toiletries ($500 a month) groceries + eating out
We are at $10,000 left per year now.
And you know your going to spend atleast $4,000 of that on stuff. Electronics, clothes, whatever.
Hopefully you have health insurance and co-pays are reasonable, you may spend another $1,000 on health a year.

That will leave you with $5,000 left over per year.

After 30 years of working at that level your only going to have $200,000 in your retirement.

Is that enough to retire on? Lets hope you don't have a stroke, get cancer, take any serious leave time from work, otherwise that 200,000 will dwindle very fast.

You will basically have to work till you die.

Really it seems to me like you need to be getting atleast 10,000 a month. That will then easily leave you with 2 million after 25 years and you can reasonable retire in your 50's or early 60's, maybe sooner. That is if you start making that amount by the time your 30 and don't go on too many vacations or buy too many fancy cars/houses.

Or am I missing something here about financing and retirements?

500 a month on toiletries.... are you bathing in frankincense and myrrh?
Old 03-11-2012, 11:12 AM Forever Domon is offline  
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Yotem
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dio View Post
How do you figure that less than 40k is enough?

This is how I figure it, each of these numbers are base yearly.
40,000 take home after taxes
- 12,000 rent/mortgage + utiltity bills (electricty, phone internet)
- 1,000 for car insurance
- 1,000 for gas + maintence
- 2,000 a year put towards a new car
- 6,000 for food, toiletries ($500 a month) groceries + eating out
We are at $10,000 left per year now.
And you know your going to spend atleast $4,000 of that on stuff. Electronics, clothes, whatever.
Hopefully you have health insurance and co-pays are reasonable, you may spend another $1,000 on health a year.

Most people assume they will eventually get married in which case many of those costs will go down as they become shared expenses. Until they do they can have a roommate (so $500/month for rent), cook at home ($200/month for food) and in some areas take public transportation.

Quote:
You will basically have to work till you die.
So? I prefer to enjoy myself while I don't need twenty pills to get out of bed every morning.

Quote:
Or am I missing something here about financing and retirements?
Yes, it's called investing and interest rates but that only cuts it down by half or so.

Quote:
chemically mutated brightly colored girls on the social side :\
So you hang out in a social scene that appeals strongly to short term pleasure seeking types and you're wondering why they don't plan for the future? Seriously? Hint: Most career oriented men and women won't be part of that scene.
Old 03-11-2012, 11:47 AM Yotem is offline  
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dio
 
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So you hang out in a social scene that appeals strongly to short term pleasure seeking types and you're wondering why they don't plan for the future?

exactly
Old 03-11-2012, 03:23 PM dio is offline  
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dio
 
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500 a month on toiletries.... are you bathing in frankincense and myrrh?

$500 a month for toletries, groceries and eating out
Old 03-11-2012, 03:23 PM dio is offline  
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$500 a month for toletries, groceries and eating out

need to eat out less. Ive survived on 120 a month.
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