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Caelum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unflushable Turd View Post
this thread has offically turned me off to AR's unless i become a serious baller and plunk down big cash for a Colt

Thats good and bad IMO. AR's are awesome rifles so you'll be missing out on them.
But if you're like me, I just wanted a great one out of the box. Not something i had to upgrade to make it great.

You can get a decent one for less, maybe the OP can pm you the link to that M&P. I passed it as I skimmed the chart in my original post and its further to the left of the chart then I recalled and didnt see it TBH. But you can evaluate for yourself if the things it deviates from the Colt standard are significant enough to you to justify spending more money on upgrading.

For instance the non double shielded handguards...while it doesn't meet the spec of Colt or BCM, that's pretty insignificant for me personally so if that was all there was different...fuck it ya know.

Also, you can find a Colt for the same $ as that BCM I linked. And if you look at the chart they have the same qualities so if you cant find one, the BCM isnt a compromise in regard to the colt. They'll perform pretty much exactly the same, for the same cost. 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
Old 10-08-2009, 11:07 PM Caelum is offline  
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Thanks for the info caelum, what would you think about something like this?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=142637082

I read here that Rock River is good quality AR but i still would have to shell out money to get the lower.
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:39 PM The Unflushable Turd is offline  
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Caelum
 
What really stands out in that kit is the two stage trigger. Normally their pretty expensive
And I have to say that the trigger is the best part. If you refer back to "the chart" that I posted earlier. The RRA lacks a lot of the higher end characteristics. However, the best part of the chart is the description of everything thats listed. If you read through there and determine that the things it lacks are not worth the extra money, then you can feel more comfortable making a decision.

What you can also look at is just the cost and compare. For that kit you need 670 + approx 130 for a lower. So you're still sitting at 800 for that rifle.

I'm not trying to say that thats not good nor am I an expert or anything, but I just want to point out that for an additional 100$ in that build I listed, you have a top of the regular consumer level instead of a rifle thats closer to the bottom of the line. IMO i would rather get that OP rifle for 600 complete than that RRA for 800 total. Cause again referring back to the chart, there's not a whole hell of a lot of differences between the two.

And once again, if you dont want to invest in it, dont. The RRA and the CMMG one in the OP will shoot fine. They wont win shooting contests but they will function well enough
Old 10-10-2009, 12:30 PM Caelum is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caelum View Post
The S&W is a better rifle, but IMO its not better enough to justify the 160$ increase in cost

OP take a look at this for some really good info about a few of the brands of AR's
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642:


I think that chart has been a little overstated in its supposed importance. A lot of that information is pretty irrelevant for 95% of potential gun purchasers.

What is the failure rate of a bolt carrier group that has been shot peened, MPI'ed and HPT'ed compared to one that hasn't been? That is something that might be interesting if there could be shown that there is a significant difference in MTBF; if such a thing has been shown with reliable data, I would love to see it.

How many AR buyers will ever actually know for sure or even care if the barrel is parkerized underneath the sight other than sleeping well because they saw a chart that said it was so?

The chart also awards happy blue boxes for some things as if they are universally accepted as superior... like a 1:7 twist. Should someone buying an M4 really pay extra for a twist rate to shoot heavy match grade bullets? I dare say the limitation of the iron sights or something like an Eotech will be more apparent than the twist rate.

...and to clarify a bit, that chart is more accurately referring to specific models, not "brands".
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Old 10-10-2009, 03:58 PM Baloneyflaps. is offline  
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I dont disagree. And as stated before, reading the description of all the stuff in the chart and making your own determination of whether or not that is an important check in the box for you is the real significance of the chart.

But for me personally, I dont buy stuff to fix it up. There is no way I can justify to my bank account, hey this works ok and costs "x", but I can make it better by spending "y" totalling "z."
My bank account will ask me why didnt you just buy the better one to begin with for "a" because now you've spent "z" more than you would have if you had bought the better one outright for "a"

And you dont need match grade bullets to shoot from a 1:7. Palmettoarmory.com has some PRVI 62gr for $88/200 which is cheaper than I bought my shitty ass wolf ammo a year ago. And this PRVI is FAR better ammo. Plus 1:7 will will do fine with 55gr to about 150yds
Old 10-12-2009, 08:50 AM Caelum is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caelum View Post
I dont disagree. And as stated before, reading the description of all the stuff in the chart and making your own determination of whether or not that is an important check in the box for you is the real significance of the chart.

But for me personally, I dont buy stuff to fix it up. There is no way I can justify to my bank account, hey this works ok and costs "x", but I can make it better by spending "y" totalling "z."
My bank account will ask me why didnt you just buy the better one to begin with for "a" because now you've spent "z" more than you would have if you had bought the better one outright for "a"

And you dont need match grade bullets to shoot from a 1:7. Palmettoarmory.com has some PRVI 62gr for $88/200 which is cheaper than I bought my shitty ass wolf ammo a year ago. And this PRVI is FAR better ammo. Plus 1:7 will will do fine with 55gr to about 150yds


At least you understand what that chart actually shows. I've seen some people throw that chart around as a basis for saying that everything on the "right side" of the chart is junk and the brands on the left are the only ones to be considered, which is pretty silly.

I wasn't familiar with palmettoarmory... they have some good prices, thanks! I'll probably buy a case or two from there. Best prices on brass cased 5.56 I've seen in a while.


Besides the steel case, what do you dislike about the Wolf? Accuracy or reliability problems? I shot a couple hundred rounds of wolf and brown bear last week through my M4 with no problems. I was only shooting out to around 75yds though so any accuracy issues probably wouldn't have been immediately evident either.
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:42 AM Baloneyflaps. is offline  
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Well, TBH it was my Bushmasters fault. And after reading for the past year about all this I've learned that BM short strokes on wolf a LOT. And I had a casing get stuck in the chamber that I had to take to a gunsmith to get it extracted. There was nothing I could do to get that bolt to come back. And it would not feed more than 1 round. EVER. I mean every round would jam and if by some miracle it didnt jam it short stroked. So needless to say at the end of a day shooting, my charging handle was well worn and I had a really sore index finger

Accuracy wasnt that great, well with the BM when it would shoot more than one round at a time. All in all just kind of a impression making experience that has turned me off of it forever. And Bushmasters.
The whole ordeal of that is why I started building the ar I just finished. I still had a lot of wolf left over so after shooting some Remington and PMC with my new one I went ahead and for a lark loaded some mags with Wolf and it shot without a hitch. More reason for me to hate so much my POS BM and to try to steer people to better quality of rifle instead of them having a bad experience and blaming the platform
Old 10-12-2009, 11:12 AM Caelum is offline  
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Interesting. My M4 is a bushmaster and after about 1000rds I've only had 1 failure to feed, and that was during the first few rounds with Hornady, rifle dry, right out of the box.

I shot Hornady, Wolf and Brown Bear last week without a hitch. I also have yet to clean it since it has been bought... I only squirt the BCG with silicone before shooting. I am actually curious to see how many rounds I can get without cleaning it.

Mind you, I wouldn't go into combat like this, but it makes for an interesting exercise.

Perhaps either you got really unlucky, or maybe my BM is just made to a higher standard than most of their rifles. I have the TX DPS model M4, btw which means this is quite possible.
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Old 10-12-2009, 12:22 PM Baloneyflaps. is offline  
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Caelum
 
Perhaps

I just know it turned me right off of them
Old 10-12-2009, 01:17 PM Caelum is offline  
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Baloneyflaps.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caelum View Post
Perhaps

I just know it turned me right off of them


Can't say I blame you, it would me as well.


This is what I have: http://www.gtdist.com/ProductDetail....BCWA3F16M4TXIO the testing specs are listed in PDF as well.


Given that it actually shoots shitty ammo while dirty, it wasn't a bad deal at $875 I don't think.
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Old 10-12-2009, 02:48 PM Baloneyflaps. is offline  
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Caelum
 
I'm not dogging your rifle out cause it shoots swimmingly for you.
BUT the link you listed is your BM for $900 and the build I listed is $900 as well. Just saying is all


My rifle cost me around $1200 and the fore end I'm going to buy next week and the scope will put it over 2k /shrug it shoots fucking awesome though. Love it SO much
After our range trip my shooting buddy and fellow Fallujah vet bought basically the same rifle as mine with all the same furniture I've got on mine the following week. It's just a joy to shoot compared to my other one

Last edited by Caelum; 10-13-2009 at 12:43 PM..
Old 10-13-2009, 12:36 PM Caelum is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caelum View Post
I'm not dogging your rifle out cause it shoots swimmingly for you.
BUT the link you listed is your BM for $900 and the build I listed is $900 as well. Just saying is all


My rifle cost me around $1200 and the fore end I'm going to buy next week and the scope will put it over 2k /shrug it shoots fucking awesome though. Love it SO much
After our range trip my shooting buddy and fellow Fallujah vet bought basically the same rifle as mine with all the same furniture I've got on mine the following week. It's just a joy to shoot compared to my other one

The price went up since I bought mine for $874.95


...and ordering all the parts would add up quite a bit on shipping to the point that I would be getting less for more cash- I picked up my complete M4 8 miles from where I live... hardcase, extra mags, etc. I've added YHM rails, a vertical foregrip, Eotech 512, and a BUIS. Everyone who has shot it has liked it, including 2 of the green berets I work with. We were at a conference in Kerrville last week and spent an afternoon at this range http://www.shootingandhunting.net/

I've let a total of about 6 other guys shoot it and 2 of them have offered to buy it from me.
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Old 10-13-2009, 06:24 PM Baloneyflaps. is offline  
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i recommend www.spikestactical.com I love mine
Old 10-14-2009, 07:23 AM DHermit is offline  
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