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Free_Willy
 
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Tell me about it, in fact listen to the song on my page it says exactly that about idiots: http://www.myspace.com/Jerryny
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Old 09-09-2007, 01:46 PM Free_Willy is offline  
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l0llerb3rri3sk33kl3s
i did it for the lulz
 
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Sorry. I was too, before I turned 17.

so when you turn 18 will you realize how useless you are and just kill yourself?
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Old 09-09-2007, 01:53 PM l0llerb3rri3sk33kl3s is offline  
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möbiustrip
 
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Here's what happened: I was with a church group. We prayed to God in Jesus Christ's name. Then miracles happen.
It's so easy, no wonder we're #1!

(Heh -- I put "AOL slogan" into google to make sure I had it right, and that link is the first result -- coincidence, or divine intervention??)

Why did you find a causal relationship between the prayer and the miracle?

Quote:
The reason I think it was a bona fide miracle is that the chances of it happening are so small that I would say there's no way it happened by chance.
I was hoping for better details.

About ten days ago an OK couple won the Powerball for the second time, and the follow-up story was a family who's lost a second son in Iraq. Both strikingly improbable.

Quote:
God provided a miracle when I (and others) prayed to Him in the name of Jesus Christ. This is why I believe in God
Sorry for the gotcha, but: so you didn't believe in Him while you were praying?
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Old 09-09-2007, 03:18 PM möbiustrip is offline  
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so basically you saw something that you couldn't explain, and rather than simply resign to the fact of your ignorance you delude yourself into thinking that there is a magical man in the sky that made it happen because he cares about our daily affairs

lawl

What if the miracle was meeting God? What then, hmmm?

I just like to ask that question. What if I personally saw God but couldn't prove it to anyone else? What should I do/think/believe?
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Old 09-09-2007, 03:22 PM PopeKevinI is offline  
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Escaped Gorilla Genitals
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Ohhhhhh

Ohhhh

Ohh

...

What?

I guess he's right after all then
Old 09-09-2007, 03:24 PM Escaped Gorilla Genitals is offline  
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mike27
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What if the miracle was meeting God? What then, hmmm?

I just like to ask that question. What if I personally saw God but couldn't prove it to anyone else? What should I do/think/believe?

If God came to you and told you to kill someone, would you do it? You might have had a truly profound spiritual experience, but how can you be sure that it was God, rather than Satan (posing as God)? The truth is, you can't know.
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Old 09-09-2007, 03:33 PM mike27 is offline  
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PopeKevinI
 
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If God came to you and told you to kill someone, would you do it? You might have had a truly profound spiritual experience, but how can you be sure that it was God, rather than Satan (posing as God)? The truth is, you can't know.

I wrote a lengthy article years ago about discerning God's voice from all those other things we might mistake as it. I built it around the apostle Thomas and his asking the resurrected Christ "Lord, is it you?" while everyone else in the room blindly trusted that Jesus was who he said he was. Unfortunately that article along with nearly 500 other pages of my best years of writing were lost in a hard drive crash

So I've given what you ask a lot of consideration. How do we know that what we believe to be God is really God? Or if a miracle is authentic, or just something we lack a better explanation for? The truth is, we can never be 100% certain, at least not in this lifetime. But, then the same can be said of anything...when it comes down to it, everything is subject to interpretation by the observer.

That's not to say there aren't concrete truths in this world. Of course constants exist. My point is that you can't expect a person to doubt their own perceptions unless you doubt everything your senses tell you. After all, the sky might not be blue after all...you could just be imagining it.
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Old 09-09-2007, 06:51 PM PopeKevinI is offline  
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Okay Ray, why don't you FUCKING SPIT IT OUT: WHAT FUCKING 'MIRACLES' DID YOU AND YOUR FUCKING YOUTH GROUP WITNESS?

Spit it out, so that we too may believe in the horrible monster god yahweh, who's great book (the bible) tells us of laughable mythology (the first 11.5 chapters of genesis are straight from babylonian mythology), as well as barbarisms (many committed by yahweh himself, who killed over 2.5 million people in the OT), the god who sent his only son (even though he never mentioned a son in the OT) to earth to die for the sins of mankind (even though hell doesn't exist in the OT, it was invented in the 300 years after Malachi was written and before Jesus was born, if he really existed), all the while not fulfilling any of the OT prophecies.

And then YHWH, in his great power, allowed muhommad the false prophet to found islam, thus drawing over a billion believers away from Christ.

You are a fool, Ray. Sorry. I was too, before I turned 17 (I'm not saying you're a teenager). Just please listen to reason here- you are following a ridiculous mythology. It's because you're an ape who's too smart for it's own good, so you yearn for eternal life and paradise but can't have it. You and your family are worm food. Accept it, and help us kill the lie of religion.

Chill the fuck out, you immature psuedo-intellectual piece of shit. You're worthless and so are your grandiose attempts at proving that you're not. FUCK OFF
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Old 09-09-2007, 09:34 PM dudemac is offline  
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möbiustrip
 
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What if the miracle was meeting God? What then, hmmm?

I just like to ask that question. What if I personally saw God but couldn't prove it to anyone else? What should I do/think/believe?
As long as you're hanging out with God, why not ask Him?

"O Lord?"

YES.

"Now what?"

GOOD QUESTION.

"Thank you O Lord. Truly thou art bountiful in thy mercy. So, ah..."

BEATS ME. LET'S EAT.

"Really? I just, uh, okay. I am famished in thy sight. What did --"

I DON'T KNOW. WHAT DO YOU FEEL LIKE?

"Burgers, Lord."

LET THERE BE -- WAIT, I HAD BURGERS TUESDAY.
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Last edited by möbiustrip; 09-09-2007 at 09:46 PM..
Old 09-09-2007, 09:43 PM möbiustrip is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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Okay Ray, why don't you FUCKING SPIT IT OUT: WHAT FUCKING 'MIRACLES' DID YOU AND YOUR FUCKING YOUTH GROUP WITNESS?

Does anyone else think that this post is a bit too aggressive? Do you think FSM should tone down the masculinity so we don't start a war or something over here?

I dunno, I'm just saying, it's hurting my innocent ears.

Anyone else think it would be great if there were a general toning down of masculinity to avoid such aggressive and angry posts like this one?
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Old 09-09-2007, 09:55 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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mathlete
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Does anyone else think that this post is a bit too aggressive? Do you think FSM should tone down the masculinity so we don't start a war or something over here?

I dunno, I'm just saying, it's hurting my innocent ears.

Anyone else think it would be great if there were a general toning down of masculinity to avoid such aggressive and angry posts like this one?



This is the first thing that got me to post in one of FSM's absolutely worthless threads.
Old 09-09-2007, 10:57 PM mathlete is offline  
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Here's what happened: I was with a church group. We prayed to God in Jesus Christ's name. Then miracles happen. The reason I think it was a bona fide miracle is that the chances of it happening are so small that I would say there's no way it happened by chance. When I looked for a cause there was only one thing that presented itself- which was that God had provided a miracle.

I'm sorry that I didn't answer your question well enough in my last post. God provided a miracle when I (and others) prayed to Him in the name of Jesus Christ. This is why I believe in God, and particularly why I believe in the Christian account of God. That's why I believe in Jesus. Then, my belief in the events that are recorded in The Bible follows from that. I hope that explains it well enough.
Why does statistical improbabilty prove the existence of god to you? No one has any real chance of winning the lottery or getting struck by lightning. Both happen many times a year. Presumably you'd agree god is responsible for those acts. Why is he responsible for the statistically improbable event you expereinced?
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Old 09-10-2007, 12:38 AM Soybomb is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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This is the first thing that got me to post in one of FSM's absolutely worthless threads.

Always happy to provide some entertainment .
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Old 09-10-2007, 12:04 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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Ray Charles
 
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It's so easy, no wonder we're #1!

(Heh -- I put "AOL slogan" into google to make sure I had it right, and that link is the first result -- coincidence, or divine intervention??)

Why did you find a causal relationship between the prayer and the miracle?

I was hoping for better details.

About ten days ago an OK couple won the Powerball for the second time, and the follow-up story was a family who's lost a second son in Iraq. Both strikingly improbable.

Sorry for the gotcha, but: so you didn't believe in Him while you were praying?

Here's what happened: this group and I went on a mission trip. We're from Saint Louis, and we went to a small town on an indian reservation in New Mexico. We got there and stayed overnight at a small church. We were supposed to stay at another church for the remainder of the week, so the next day we went and looked at a local canyon (some kind of landmark) until we were supposed to meet the people with whom we'd be working for the rest of the week. After we met them we stayed around this new church for the rest of the day. The whole time we didn't stray from the main road of town, and a few side streets that led to the churches and canyon. I'm pointing out the fact that we knew nothing of this town we were in, and had barely even looked around the place.

The main event for us while we were there was a vacation Bible school (VBS) that we were helping our host church run. Towards this goal, we planned to spend the third day canvassing and promoting the event. That morning (or maybe the night before, I dunno) the group leaders got the idea that they would "Ask The Lord" what to do. Basically, everyone was supposed to pray, and ask God for direction on what they should do that day. When the group did this, most of the people there got the idea that they should go canvassing, along with a picture of some object or place that they should go to. These people got into three vans and left. Now, everyone who saw something like this actually found these places or objects - that they had never seen before - in a town they had never been to - over the course of an afternoon. What's more is that at every one of these places something significant happened. Most of the time it was simply that they found a whole lot of kids to invite to this VBS event. Once they found some Mormon missionaries, and another time they found that the local Catholic church was basically blending the Native American beliefs with Christianity to make it more acceptable to the local people. This is a bad thing to most Christians.

Think for a second. This isn't like a medical miracle where the causes and effects of everything can be very complex, and you're not entirely sure that anything happened at all. In this case roughly twenty people had visions of things, or places that they had never been before. Then, they went and found these places in a town that nobody knew. A few of the things were fairly mundane objects, but most of the places were unique. I should mention that even with the mundane objects there was no repetition- people didn't see something twenty times and it yielded something once.

In my mind there's no doubt that this is a miracle. What's nice about this occurance is that we can play a few probability games to demonstrate how unlikely it really was. Suppose each of these twenty people were given two locations and told to randomly pick the correct one to go to. In this case, the probability of all twenty people choosing the correct location is 1 in 2^20, or 1 in 1,048,657. That's steep odds, but not outside the realm of your average lotto winner. Now take a case where twenty people are given twenty different locations and randomly, independently guess at the correct location. The chances that every one of them picks the correct location is 1 in 20^20, or 1 in 104,857,600,000,000,000,000,000,000. In my opinion, the chances of that happening randomly are so small as to be nil. Now, in the real scenario the people didn't even have a multiple-choice quiz to help them find these places. The people just got the idea when they asked God for guidance. That's the miracle.

For your final question: I'm not really sure. I went to church and followed the group. I prayed and did everything that everyone else did. However, I would say that in my heart I wasn't truly convinced that God was real. I didn't yet have the evidence to let me say that.
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Old 09-10-2007, 06:03 PM Ray Charles is offline  
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Ray Charles
 
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Okay Ray, why don't you FUCKING SPIT IT OUT: WHAT FUCKING 'MIRACLES' DID YOU AND YOUR FUCKING YOUTH GROUP WITNESS?

Spit it out, so that we too may believe in the horrible monster god yahweh, who's great book (the bible) tells us of laughable mythology (the first 11.5 chapters of genesis are straight from babylonian mythology), as well as barbarisms (many committed by yahweh himself, who killed over 2.5 million people in the OT), the god who sent his only son (even though he never mentioned a son in the OT) to earth to die for the sins of mankind (even though hell doesn't exist in the OT, it was invented in the 300 years after Malachi was written and before Jesus was born, if he really existed), all the while not fulfilling any of the OT prophecies.

And then YHWH, in his great power, allowed muhommad the false prophet to found islam, thus drawing over a billion believers away from Christ.

You are a fool, Ray. Sorry. I was too, before I turned 17 (I'm not saying you're a teenager). Just please listen to reason here- you are following a ridiculous mythology. It's because you're an ape who's too smart for it's own good, so you yearn for eternal life and paradise but can't have it. You and your family are worm food. Accept it, and help us kill the lie of religion.

See my post above.

Also, I have to say this: it seems to me like you're part of the problem here. I said above that the problem isn't religion, it's religious intolerance. No matter what anybody believes, they have to be able to coexist with people who believe differently. You obviously have some kind of problem with Christians or maybe just religious people in general. If you get this worked up simply because I don't agree with you, you're on the same path that led to The Crusades, and leads people to blow themselves up today in the name of Allah. That attitude leads to hate and violence. THAT ATTITUDE is what you need to be fighting, not me.
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Old 09-10-2007, 06:10 PM Ray Charles is offline  
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