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Escaped Gorilla Genitals
Jim Morrison
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By the time we got around to creating actual AI I'd hope the creators would be smart enough to put safeguards in place for containment so it doesn't go all matrix or something (if that where even possible). AI turning into some kind of super hacker controlling armies of robots always seemed really unrealistic to me (makes for good movies though). True AI is more a novelty than a necessity since the vast majority of human ambitions for robotics can be accomplished without it. I also suspect society will have changed in such a way that the traditional divide between man and machine and what constitutes humanity will be much different than it is today.

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Originally Posted by möbiustrip View Post
A true artificial intelligence is capable of feeling, so I'd probably just show it a picture of mike27 and it would crush itself for its inferiority.

We're going to need a photo of mike27 reading with no shirt on, it might someday save the human race from total annihilation.
Mike is so dreamy

Last edited by Jim Morrison; 10-21-2007 at 03:43 PM..
Old 10-21-2007, 03:32 PM Escaped Gorilla Genitals is offline  
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Escaped Gorilla Genitals
Jim Morrison
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Quote:
Originally Posted by That German Guy View Post
True innovation, that is, the inventing of concepts wholly unknown before, is only possible if a degree of randomness is present in the thought processes of the innovating entity.
I really don't see any obvious reason why that should be true. The understanding and refinement of new ideas is not linked to randomness, a lot of human innovation is based more on trial and error than anything else.

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Randomness begets errors though, and a single entity cannot check it's thought processes for errors effectively, as the check itself could be flawed.

Thus, the random component needed for innovation would induce errors that severely limit the capability of said AI.
Or this
Old 10-21-2007, 03:39 PM Escaped Gorilla Genitals is offline  
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#17  

joemama
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Yes
Completely

In another 20 years or so I expect an AI housemaid (a hot one) to be shaving my balls for me.
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Old 10-21-2007, 04:00 PM joemama is offline  
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Komataguri
 
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Yes
Completely

In another 20 years or so I expect an AI housemaid (a hot one) to be shaving my balls for me.

Hrm..

on one hand...Hot robot bitch in a french made uniform fondling your balls..


On the other hand..a robot with a razor sharp instrument right against your balls..



Tough call
Old 10-21-2007, 04:11 PM Komataguri is offline  
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mike27
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Sounds like someone has seen the Matrix/I, Robot/BSG too many times.


But to feign seriousness here for a second, I don't see why we wouldn't be able to monitor these neural networks once we've built them. Surely if we can create the code we can monitor it right?

you can't tell what a neural net is "thinking", it is a chaotic system that quickly becomes impossible to characterize or predict
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Old 10-21-2007, 04:25 PM mike27 is offline  
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#20  

mike27
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You idiots have missed my point entirely. I'm not posing the danger of an overtly "evil" AI (a la Matrix, Terminator, etc). I'm saying that the unreadable nature of neural nets makes it impossible to tell if the computer is being genuine or simply feigning naivete.

In other words, imagine an exceptionally intelligent 50 year old mind in a 5 year old's body. When faced with an AI that produces outputs like a "5 year old", how do we know that the computer is truly as primitive as it appears, rather than a 50 year old masquerading as a harmless 'child' to gain your trust?
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Old 10-21-2007, 04:30 PM mike27 is offline  
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mike27
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It can be trusted as much as human intelligence.
If it's a full replication, then it's just another human mind.

But we won't stop there. Eventually we will have AI's with vastly superior intelligence.

I really don't know whether we are creating slaves or masters.
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Old 10-21-2007, 04:32 PM mike27 is offline  
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#22  

DivineStorm
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As long as it has no emotions, it can be trusted. It's just a simple matter of 0 or 1 otherwise.
Old 10-21-2007, 04:49 PM DivineStorm is offline  
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#23  

mike27
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As long as it has no emotions, it can be trusted. It's just a simple matter of 0 or 1 otherwise.

1) That's a big "if", considering we can't even define emotion (let alone create an AI without it). Personally, I think emotion is a product of the mechanics of the brain, which means you cannot create an AI (certainly not one modeled after the human brain) without it.
2) Just because something lacks emotion doesn't mean it isn't dangerous. Isn't a lack of empathy one of the defining characteristics of a sociopath?

edit: by the way, your brain could be modeled as 1's and 0's as well, so your whole argument is pretty much invalid.
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Old 10-21-2007, 04:54 PM mike27 is offline  
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#24  

joemama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike27 View Post
1) That's a big "if", considering we can't even define emotion (let alone create an AI without it). Personally, I think emotion is a product of the mechanics of the brain, which means you cannot create an AI (certainly not one modeled after the human brain) without it.
2) Just because something lacks emotion doesn't mean it isn't dangerous. Isn't a lack of empathy one of the defining characteristics of a sociopath?

edit: by the way, your brain could be modeled as 1's and 0's as well, so your whole argument is pretty much invalid.
I believe that emotion is something that is uniquely human (or at least biological) and can only be mimicked artificially. Not the same as real emotion..
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Old 10-21-2007, 05:44 PM joemama is offline  
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#25  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama View Post
I believe that emotion is something that is uniquely human (or at least biological) and can only be mimicked artificially. Not the same as real emotion..

While I kind of agree with you, I think you're giving good old fashioned human malice a bit too much credit here
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Old 10-21-2007, 05:56 PM Straw Man is offline  
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#26  

mike27
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I believe that emotion is something that is uniquely human (or at least biological) and can only be mimicked artificially. Not the same as real emotion..

lol
you are confusing existence with perception
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Old 10-21-2007, 06:27 PM mike27 is offline  
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#27  

ephekt
 
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you can't tell what a neural net is "thinking", it is a chaotic system that quickly becomes impossible to characterize or predict
Curious. I'm admittedly very ignorant to the theoretics surrounding this, although I'd like to learn more on this and the quantum computing behind it (assuming this would be a requirement?). Got any suggested reading?

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Originally Posted by mike27 View Post
You idiots have missed my point entirely. I'm not posing the danger of an overtly "evil" AI (a la Matrix, Terminator, etc). I'm saying that the unreadable nature of neural nets makes it impossible to tell if the computer is being genuine or simply feigning naivete.
Come now, you have to expect the cheap shots when your post basically mirror-images a number of sci-fi movies. It's just too easy to pass up.

I got your point though.
Old 10-21-2007, 07:27 PM ephekt is offline  
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#28  

ry_goody
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama View Post
I believe that emotion is something that is uniquely human (or at least biological) and can only be mimicked artificially. Not the same as real emotion..

we humans are just highly complex machines

to see the complexity of human, you need to see the complexity above human

so ask yourself, what does complexity want? Whats does complexity need in order to grow?

well.. as nature shows, union, love and fucking

so find some union, find some love and fuck yourself however possible
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Old 10-21-2007, 07:28 PM ry_goody is offline  
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#29  

TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike27 View Post
If we are to create an impressive AI, it is most likely going to rely on a neural net, meaning we will have less understanding of what's going on in the machine - that is, what the machine is "thinking" - as time goes on. At this point, how can we be sure that the AI can be trusted not to damage human interests? What if the AI decides humans (or certain humans) need to be killed, and yet it deceives its' observers by appearing naive and benign?

Eventually, someone will create an AI and humanity will be forced to struggle with this question. Can we trust AI? How do we know? Will we ever trust AI? It's possible that one day AI technology will be more closely guarded than nuclear secrets because of the destructive potential of a rogue AI. Or perhaps someone will indeed "let the dogs out" (intentionally, accidentally, or by being deceived into doing so by their illegal AI) and humanity will be wiped out by a new "species" with vastly different characteristics and behavior.

Cliffs:
1) Can you trust an AI? What if the AI is actually far more intelligent than you perceive it to be and it is actually deceiving and manipulating you?
2) Once we figure out the technology (be it 25, 50, 100, or 200 years from now), how will we keep the proverbial cat inside the bag? What of the dangers of rogue AI? Will AI be like people's "kids"? What if the AI are vastly (incomprehensibly) intellectually superior?


It's unlikely an AI will be a danger. It wont have millions of years of different behavior patterns to balance in a poorly integrated psyche. No glands, hormones unreasoning fear, jealousy etc.
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Old 10-21-2007, 08:00 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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