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Straw Man
RuHo
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Originally Posted by ry_goody View Post
schizophrenia exists because the word -schizophrenia- exists

You'll be a fucking idiot, regardless
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Old 11-03-2007, 11:38 AM Straw Man is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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Yes I realize everything at its base is quantum.

Or rather, I prefer the term just energy because it separates the truth from the scientific metaphor.

Really, what anywhere in my writing would give any feeling of the slightest insinuation that I am not aware of this? Your imagining things. I would expect if anything, someone would say I apply such theories TOO much, not that I don't apply them enough to everything.

I would take this a step further and say, so yes you are aware by the metaphor of science we are all energy. Now what have you done because of this?

The point is that you're not overapplying the theory, you're applying it WRONG.
Old 11-03-2007, 11:47 AM Gibonius is offline  
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ry_goody
 
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Had to throw it out there at least once. The usual insanity doesn't phase me, this new breed of "quantum mechanics PROVES my insanity" lured a response out of me.

proves?

well lets think about this here. I know you think utilizing subjective observations may be an absurd thing to deduce truth. But consider for a moment your every day habits. You wake up and your hungry, certainly that -proves- the function of your digestive system by itself, separate of any scientific supposition. Say you get a headache and take a pain reliever, that proves the effectiveness of it via subjective observation, without science.

So you feel an imbalance of the 4th chakra point and do an energized yogic meditation to get the kundalini flowing again and invariably can get up to the 6th chakra and have some nice subtle visual hallucinations? Yes certainly all in the realm of subjective of effect. But there is a structure of cause and effect there, there is a subjective observation and for me personally I can piece such things together into repeatable, useful, pattern of life.

Your only complaint is that, science has not given me the tools to measure states or energy levels at a quantum level. Your condescendence is nothing more than a 'don't point out what science hasn't yet accomplished cause it makes it feel less than amazingly perfect'. Which I would profess... it is.

See, quantum theory is something that can be quite accurately applied to all forms of crazy because of the simple fact that. It's basis hinges on SUBJECTIVE OBSERVATION. Therefore you can use SUBJECTIVE MEANS, to verify personal quantum theory. The OBJECTIVE OBSERVATION of the non-existent quantum energy measurement device is not what creates concressence. In fact if such a device was invented. I bet they could take the same chuck of quantum whatever, show it to different people, different SUBJECTIVE OBSERVERS have it form in different ways and measure it differently with the same instrument depending on who is looking at that 'quantum thing' and have it come out on the meter differently.

Which is actually, what they do right now... just one particle at time.

See unlike all other forms of science that relied purely on objective concept. Quantum theory is special and a step beyond that because it takes into account it's complete dependence on SUBJECTIVITY. In fact, you could go so far as to say study of Quantum Mechnics is the study of subjectively defined energy flows. Don't forget, you need the observer, you need the subjectivity. Quantum cannot exist in a pure state of objectivity, it can't exist without the non-objective 'crazy' as you wish it to be.
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Old 11-03-2007, 11:50 AM ry_goody is offline  
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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
The point is that you're not overapplying the theory, you're applying it WRONG.

wow

WRONG

certainly has alot of explanation in it

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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
I so rarely get a chance to talk QM on the Internets, gotta jump on those opportunities. Or something.

really

your great attempt at QM debate on the internets summed up in your glorious argument of

WRONG

I AM CORRECT AND YOU ALL KNOW IT.
Yes yes... we do. It's ok sweetie.
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Old 11-03-2007, 11:51 AM ry_goody is offline  
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ry_goody
 
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Originally Posted by Free_Willy View Post
Me too Goody. Heres another interesting theory.

[B]The Universe as a Hologram

Does Objective Reality Exist, or is the Universe a Phantasm?


[/COLOR]
[/FONT][/CENTER]

"This suggests that given the proper tools it might even be possible to someday reach into the superholographic level of reality and pluck out scenes from the long-forgotten past."

I would say this is already possible...
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Old 11-03-2007, 12:07 PM ry_goody is offline  
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ry_goody
 
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Originally Posted by RuHo View Post
You'll be a fucking idiot, regardless

idiot exists because the word -idiot- exists



its a great formula, try putting it to everything
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Old 11-03-2007, 12:08 PM ry_goody is offline  
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Straw Man
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Originally Posted by ry_goody View Post
idiot exists because the word -idiot- exists



its a great formula, try putting it to everything

You'll still be a fucking idiot regardless


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Old 11-03-2007, 12:13 PM Straw Man is offline  
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William of Ockham > yuo.

Changing the name of a thing does not change the thing itself.
Old 11-03-2007, 01:21 PM Muffin Mage is offline  
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ry_goody
 
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You'll still be a fucking idiot regardless



euphemisms are peculiar things
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Old 11-03-2007, 02:03 PM ry_goody is offline  
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Originally Posted by Muffin Mage View Post
William of Ockham > yuo.

Changing the name of a thing does not change the thing itself.

Thats entirely untrue. For example. Calling it -God- spawned Christianity and all that. Calling it -Allah- spawned islam and all that whatnot. Calling it the -tao- spawned all of that whatnot.

the word is the single thing that 'isness' hinges on

plus there was that neuoscientist, mike persinger found that "verbal labels" (metaphor rather) actually create different synaptic wirings invariably altering the perception of things. Like literally, the word you use causes a physiological difference of synaptic wiring in your brain.
I don't think citing any evidence is even necessary to prove it either, so I'm not going to, search his name if your curious. All I will say is, can or can't all human experience and subjectivity be accounted for by physiological means? I.E synapses and chemicals of the brain? Where are your words accounted for?
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Old 11-03-2007, 02:06 PM ry_goody is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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Your only complaint is that, science has not given me the tools to measure states or energy levels at a quantum level. Your condescendence is nothing more than a 'don't point out what science hasn't yet accomplished cause it makes it feel less than amazingly perfect'. Which I would profess... it is.
.....

For some background, I measure quantum states for a living. I'm a spectroscopist, we use lasers to investigate quantum energy levels.

As I explained previously, your body does not have discrete quantum levels. You are not a particle. You are a huge sum of many particles, each of which have quantum levels. Your body then becomes an ensemble, and the distribution of the quantum levels of particles in your body follows predictable statistical patterns.

Quote:
See, quantum theory is something that can be quite accurately applied to all forms of crazy because of the simple fact that. It's basis hinges on SUBJECTIVE OBSERVATION. Therefore you can use SUBJECTIVE MEANS, to verify personal quantum theory. The OBJECTIVE OBSERVATION of the non-existent quantum energy measurement device is not what creates concressence. In fact if such a device was invented. I bet they could take the same chuck of quantum whatever, show it to different people, different SUBJECTIVE OBSERVERS have it form in different ways and measure it differently with the same instrument depending on who is looking at that 'quantum thing' and have it come out on the meter differently.

Which is actually, what they do right now... just one particle at time.
This is ABSOLUTELY 100% WRONG. If I measure the energy levels in a hydrogen atom 1000 times, I will get the same results EVERY TIME. If someone in Japan does the same thing, he will get THE SAME RESULTS.

If you measured the population in a single atom, you would get different results each time, weighted by the probabilities of population in each level. But if you did a lot of them, it would converge to the same statistical distribution. If you take a hydrogen atom at 5K, it will ONLY have population in the ground state in any observation you are likely to make in your lifetime.

Quote:
See unlike all other forms of science that relied purely on objective concept. Quantum theory is special and a step beyond that because it takes into account it's complete dependence on SUBJECTIVITY. In fact, you could go so far as to say study of Quantum Mechnics is the study of subjectively defined energy flows. Don't forget, you need the observer, you need the subjectivity. Quantum cannot exist in a pure state of objectivity, it can't exist without the non-objective 'crazy' as you wish it to be.
This is again simply totally wrong. PROBABILITY is not SUBJECTIVITY.

And it just shows how ridiculously clueless you are that you think science can't measure quantum levels. We've been doing it for over a hundred years. People observed line spectra in the sun over TWO HUNDRED years ago. This is routine stuff.
Old 11-03-2007, 02:15 PM Gibonius is offline  
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ry_goody
 
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.....

For some background, I measure quantum states for a living. I'm a spectroscopist, we use lasers to investigate quantum energy levels.

As I explained previously, your body does not have discrete quantum levels. You are not a particle. You are a huge sum of many particles, each of which have quantum levels. Your body then becomes an ensemble, and the distribution of the quantum levels of particles in your body follows predictable statistical patterns.


This is ABSOLUTELY 100% WRONG. If I measure the energy levels in a hydrogen atom 1000 times, I will get the same results EVERY TIME. If someone in Japan does the same thing, he will get THE SAME RESULTS.

If you measured the population in a single atom, you would get different results each time, weighted by the probabilities of population in each level. But if you did a lot of them, it would converge to the same statistical distribution. If you take a hydrogen atom at 5K, it will ONLY have population in the ground state in any observation you are likely to make in your lifetime.


This is again simply totally wrong. PROBABILITY is not SUBJECTIVITY.

And it just shows how ridiculously clueless you are that you think science can't measure quantum levels. We've been doing it for over a hundred years. People observed line spectra in the sun over TWO HUNDRED years ago. This is routine stuff.

Yes yes... but... what of measuring the points that are made concrete by observation? Thats what I'm talking about. I know you got that statistical nature down, I use the evidenced fact quite a bit in arguing ... You know "Which is actually, what they do right now... just one particle at time." I was aware of the routinity. Perhaps theres a scientific tool of measurement to translate subjective writing into proper meaning for you?

And no I dont doubt measuring the energy level of a single hydrogen atom will be the same across the board. I mean, everyone subjectively observes hydrogen to be the same thing, no? I mean can you present to me a single subjective observer that you can show water to and they will say 'no that this other crazy thing'. Everyone observes H2O to be the same as well, no?

What I am saying is, things as complex as the human being and it's underlying energy system can be observed differently by different people and the one who has the most will over the subjective force to create is what invariables controls the subjective perception of the body and the ability to manifest energy controls if need be.

You really haven't said anything that disagrees with me. You do not need your spectroscope to deduce facts of the underlying energy matrices, your body can perceive it and ultimately control the aspects of it that pertain to your body. Thats what the vedics, hindus and now the newagian movement is all about. I would say dealing with what you call 'quantum' has been more routine to humanity by many many fold greater than just, 200 years.
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Old 11-03-2007, 02:36 PM ry_goody is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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Yes yes... but... what of measuring the points that are made concrete by observation? Thats what I'm talking about. I know you got that statistical nature down, I use the evidenced fact quite a bit in arguing ... You know "Which is actually, what they do right now... just one particle at time." I was aware of the routinity. Perhaps theres a scientific tool of measurement to translate subjective writing into proper meaning for you?
"Measuring the points that are made concrete by observation" is measuring the population of the states. If you have a particle with one electron, ie, hydrogen atom, the electron can exist in various electronic states. The probability of the electron being found in each state depends on the energy spacing between levels, but you only know which state it's in when you measure (determine) the state.
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And no I dont doubt measuring the energy level of a single hydrogen atom will be the same across the board. I mean, everyone subjectively observes hydrogen to be the same thing, no? I mean can you present to me a single subjective observer that you can show water to and they will say 'no that this other crazy thing'. Everyone observes H2O to be the same as well, no?
Every objective observer would see the same thing.
Quote:
What I am saying is, things as complex as the human being and it's underlying energy system can be observed differently by different people and the one who has the most will over the subjective force to create is what invariables controls the subjective perception of the body and the ability to manifest energy controls if need be.
...and you've launched into moonbat territory. There's nothing even remotely resembling quantum mechanics in whatever it is you're jabbering about there.
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You really haven't said anything that disagrees with me. You do not need your spectroscope to deduce facts of the underlying energy matrices, your body can perceive it, the ultimately control the aspects of it that pertain to your body. Thats what the vedics, hindus and now the newagian movement is all about.
You think using meaningless phrases like "underlying energy matrix" actually has some value?
Old 11-03-2007, 04:03 PM Gibonius is offline  
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Straw Man
RuHo
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Originally Posted by ry_goody View Post
euphemisms are peculiar things

You're a fucking idiot, regardless
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Old 11-03-2007, 04:13 PM Straw Man is offline  
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What part of you are the biggest joke in the pit dont you understand?
You almost held a simulacrum of near sanity together for a couple posts. GG

The part that wonders why you bother. But youre not bright enough to figure that out even when someone drops a megaton clue.
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Old 11-04-2007, 02:32 AM Free_Willy is offline  
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