General [M]ayhem

Go Back   General [M]ayhem > Real Time Sub-Forums > The Pit
Register Members List Mark Forums Read [M]erchandise Calendar

Reply
 
Thread Tools
wickedragon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
CA at one time was the FIFTH largest economy IN The World

So yeah I am pretty sure.

Pretty sure of what? That I'd notice?
Goddamn yes I'd notice. Some of the world's best movies are made there and I like movies.
I'm not sure if the world economy'd fall over and die, but I'm sure we'd take a hit. Especially since we export oil to you guys.

When was CA the fifth largest economy in the world? I'm guessing either right after WW2, or somewhere in some gold rush.
And when could the U.S afford 1 million $ per canadian?
__________________
"By four o'clock I've discounted suicide in favour of killing everyone else in the world instead"
-Ellis
Old 11-01-2007, 11:47 PM wickedragon is offline  
Reply With Quote
#31  

Advertisement [Remove Advertisement]

TheMorlock
Contrary to my previous title I never fucked Inf's mother
 
TheMorlock's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedragon View Post
Pretty sure of what? That I'd notice?
Goddamn yes I'd notice. Some of the world's best movies are made there and I like movies.
I'm not sure if the world economy'd fall over and die, but I'm sure we'd take a hit. Especially since we export oil to you guys.

When was CA the fifth largest economy in the world? I'm guessing either right after WW2, or somewhere in some gold rush.
And when could the U.S afford 1 million $ per canadian?

about 8-12 years ago.

per canadian? edit THEY had less than 1/10 our population at the time you know the same population as the illegal aliens have now in the us.
__________________
There is nothing to worry about. Legions of wise people with nothing but all of best interests at heart are ensuring our future of love and infinite bliss. Go watch TV :Bflaps
http://www.genmay.com/showthread.php?t=572323

Last edited by TheMorlock; 11-02-2007 at 12:14 AM..
Old 11-02-2007, 12:02 AM TheMorlock is offline  
Reply With Quote
#32  

wickedragon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
about 8-12 years ago.

per canadian? you had less than 1/10 our population at the time you know the same population as the illegal aliens have now in the us.

I'm not canadian

We have way way less than 1/10th the number of people you have
__________________
"By four o'clock I've discounted suicide in favour of killing everyone else in the world instead"
-Ellis
Old 11-02-2007, 12:12 AM wickedragon is offline  
Reply With Quote
#33  

TheMorlock
Contrary to my previous title I never fucked Inf's mother
 
TheMorlock's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedragon View Post
I'm not canadian

We have way way less than 1/10th the number of people you have

yeah I edited
__________________
There is nothing to worry about. Legions of wise people with nothing but all of best interests at heart are ensuring our future of love and infinite bliss. Go watch TV :Bflaps
http://www.genmay.com/showthread.php?t=572323
Old 11-02-2007, 12:14 AM TheMorlock is offline  
Reply With Quote
#34  

wickedragon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
yeah I edited

Seriously, 1 million per canadian. Even if that is 'just' 100.000$ per american that's still a ridiculous amount of money. Way more than the U.S can afford. Was that a legitimate offer?
Are you spunking up my leg?
Just did some math; the norwegian pension fund contains roughly 80.000$ per person in Norway; including babies and old raisin-style people.
Also noticed that it is about equal in size to the "California public-employees pension fund", the largest fund in the U.S.
Oh, also learned something new. We have a fond half that size that is our actual pension-fund for pplz that need that sort of thing.
I just loled xD
__________________
"By four o'clock I've discounted suicide in favour of killing everyone else in the world instead"
-Ellis
Old 11-02-2007, 12:28 AM wickedragon is offline  
Reply With Quote
#35  

TheMorlock
Contrary to my previous title I never fucked Inf's mother
 
TheMorlock's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedragon View Post
Seriously, 1 million per canadian. Even if that is 'just' 100.000$ per american that's still a ridiculous amount of money. Way more than the U.S can afford. Was that a legitimate offer?
Are you spunking up my leg?
Just did some math; the norwegian pension fund contains roughly 80.000$ per person in Norway; including babies and old raisin-style people.
Also noticed that it is about equal in size to the "California public-employees pension fund", the largest fund in the U.S.
Oh, also learned something new. We have a fond half that size that is our actual pension-fund for pplz that need that sort of thing.
I just loled xD

Its real. It was a long time ago. The actual details probalby deflates the massivness.
the califorina cash crop of pot is about 3 billion in 1986
__________________
There is nothing to worry about. Legions of wise people with nothing but all of best interests at heart are ensuring our future of love and infinite bliss. Go watch TV :Bflaps
http://www.genmay.com/showthread.php?t=572323
Old 11-02-2007, 12:31 AM TheMorlock is offline  
Reply With Quote
#36  

Qwell
 
Keep in mind all that "free" care you talk about, it comes from somewhere. That is one of my issues with universal healthcare. It would cost us the tax payer tremendous amounts of money to fund something like that, on a scale larger than any other program we currently have. I don't trust the government with my money at all, and its pretty much impossible to scale back programs after they have started.

Most all economists have come to the same conclusion and I'll stick with that.
Old 11-02-2007, 08:14 AM Qwell is offline  
Reply With Quote
#37  

PopeKevinI
 
Tax dollars.
__________________
THIS is your brain on drugs: "I'm not a positive thinker. I am a spiralling hexagonal vortex thinker that strobes multiple colors." -ry_goody
Old 11-02-2007, 08:16 AM PopeKevinI is offline  
Reply With Quote
#38  

Straw Man
RuHo
And my head I'd be scratchin' while my thoughts were busy hatchin; If I only had a brain......
 
Straw Man's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwell View Post
With universal healthcare there is no incentive NOT to go to the doctor.

Oh jesus fucking christ
__________________
"dogs came to man to make friends and help us hunt and guard unlike pigs"
-lolergay
Old 11-02-2007, 09:17 AM Straw Man is offline  
Reply With Quote
#39  

:ninja:
My cooter sweats, and reeks like rotting sea vermon.
 
:ninja:'s Avatar
 
We already have it. Just ask Jose Padilla how much it cost him to get his hand fixed after he cut off some fingers with pruning shears.
__________________
Use Linux and BSD
Old 11-02-2007, 09:54 AM :ninja: is offline  
Reply With Quote
#40  

Escaped Gorilla Genitals
Jim Morrison
Hey, Jim <3 ules, You didn't deserve this because you can't guess numbers but anyways BREAK ON TH
 
Escaped Gorilla Genitals's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zangmonkey View Post
Ultimately it is cheaper, better and more efficient for the private market to handle the situation.
What evidence do you have to back this up? Even if insurance could be provided cheaper in a completley private market than in the current market it still doesn't fix most of the problems associated with private insurance (poorest and most needy can't afford it, discourages doctor visits, claims can be denied etc).

Healthcare shouldn't be about making insurance companies as efficient and profitable as possible, it should be about finding the best way to bring quality care for as many people as possible (well IMO anyway).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zangmonkey View Post
And, if neccesary, for the government to barter with the private sector.
That's more or less the situation we have know and it completely sucks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zangmonkey View Post
What's the problem with something like, as Rudy suggested, a tax break to people who buy health insurance?
There would still be millions of people who couldn't afford it and it wouldn't fix most of the problems we have now? It's also essentially a subsidization of private insurance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zangmonkey View Post
That would bolster the private sector while creating increase competition in the insurance market. And anybody who has taken basic econ knows that competition drives prices down and quality up.

Monopoly, on the other hand (which is what a socialized healthcare system is) tends to drive quality down and prices up.
Not necessarily. Applying market principles to healthcare makes about as much sense as applying them to schools. It's just a plain shitty model to use in that context because profitability of corporations is not the main the goal in this situation.

Last edited by Jim Morrison; 11-02-2007 at 01:13 PM..
Old 11-02-2007, 12:59 PM Escaped Gorilla Genitals is offline  
Reply With Quote
#41  

elysian
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwell View Post
Keep in mind all that "free" care you talk about, it comes from somewhere. That is one of my issues with universal healthcare. It would cost us the tax payer tremendous amounts of money to fund something like that, on a scale larger than any other program we currently have. I don't trust the government with my money at all, and its pretty much impossible to scale back programs after they have started.

guess who pays for those folks who show up in the ER that can't afford to pay ?

Quote:
Most all economists have come to the same conclusion and I'll stick with that.
so should the police and firefighters be privatised too ? applying the free market model to everything just shows how much of a dumbass someone is.
__________________
you can never be cool, unless you drive stick.

3b27e5e4cbb6ec753a14c8e4985f18d5
Old 11-02-2007, 08:49 PM elysian is offline  
Reply With Quote
#42  

pyramid
COORS LIGHTSPEED: ENGAGED
 
pyramid's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337rider View Post
I'll give you a few.
1st, America is not, nor should it ever be, a socialist county.
Roads, armies, police, fire departments, education, health care for the old and unable to work, workmans comp, unemployment, welfare, emergency care, ...

America is Pavlovianly trained to recoil at the word socialism, even though we already have many socialist/collective programs which benefit us.

Insurance of any sort is based on the idea of spreading risk among many. The only difference with a national system is that it is not for profit and the entire country pays into the same insurance policy with doesn't default on you when you actually try to use it to get care. This actually works in most of the modernized world.

Quote:
2nd, our non-socialized medical system has produced nearly ever major medical breakthrough in the last 50 years
Which HMO or health care insurance company ever came up with any major medical breakthrough?

Quote:
3. We don't like having our income, which we earned, taken at the point of a gun to be squandered in a system the free market should be able to run more efficiently
That might be a true argument if the free market actually did run health care more efficiently. So far we are at the back of the list for efficiency as well as many other measures and we pay far more for this luxury while still not having universal coverage. For profit doesn't necessarily make everything better.

The nations with universal health care spend roughly half what we do per capita (PER PERSON) oh health care. The united states currently spends the most on health care of any nation. Go go free market efficiencies!

http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/chcm010307oth.cfm
Quote:
the United States, which not only spends much more per capita on health care than any other country, but which also has had one of the fastest growth rates in health spending among developed countries. Despite this higher level of spending, the United States does not achieve better outcomes on many important health measures.
Per capita spending:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univers...#United_States
Quote:
The United States is the only wealthy, industrialized nation [Also the most wealthy industrialized nation...] that does not have a universal health care system, and in part because of this, the World Health Organization ranked the U.S. at #37 in its 2000 international comparison of the health systems of member nations.[8] The government covers a little over one-quarter of the population[9] through health care programs for the elderly, disabled, military service families and veterans, children, and the poor.[10] Federal law ensures public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay.[11] However, this unfunded mandate has contributed to a health care safety net that some analyses say is increasingly strained.[12] Certain types of medical spending and particularly health insurance benefit from significant tax subsidies; in particular, employer-sponsored health insurance is a non-taxable benefit. In all, government spending accounted for 45.1% of total health spending in the U.S. in 2005.[13]

Current estimates put U.S. health care spending at approximately 15% of GDP, the highest in the world.[14]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States
Quote:
Its national economy is the largest in the world, with a nominal 2006 gross domestic product (GDP) of more than US$13 trillion.
0.15 * 13 trillion = $1,950,000,000,000.00 or $1.95 Trillion
...

Quote:
Despite this, only an estimated 84.2% of citizens have some form of health insurance coverage, either through their employer, purchased individually, or through government sources.[9] In 2003, approximately 61 million adults, or 35 percent of individuals ages 19 to 64, had either no insurance, sporadic coverage, or insurance coverage that exposed them to high health care costs.[15] Employers that do provide insurance, on average, spend between 4.6 and 8.7% of their payroll in health insurance premiums. The cost of health care premiums is rising much faster than the general rate of inflation or employee wages. Since 2001, premiums for family coverage have increased 78%, while inflation has risen 17% and wages have risen 19%, according to a 2007 study by the Kaiser Family Foundation.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/17/bu...a6408c&ei=5090


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...federal_budget



$100 Billion = 3.33% of 3 Trillion. We are talking about a budget increase of 3.33% and that is without any potential of the cost savings of single payer/universal. That is with our current system...


Quote:
4.there must be some reason people from your socialized systems continually come to America to have medical procedures done.
1. Cosmetic surgery
2. Elective surgery
3. They are very wealthy and don't want to wait or would rather pay for a private doctor.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
__________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monsters_Are_Due_on_Maple_Street

Last edited by pyramid; 11-03-2007 at 04:32 AM..
Old 11-02-2007, 10:53 PM pyramid is offline  
Reply With Quote
#43  

pyramid
COORS LIGHTSPEED: ENGAGED
 
pyramid's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakai View Post
If health care is perceived as free, no one will use any discretion with their medical care and costs will SKYROCKET (just like they do with govt healthcare/insurance policies now).
Yes, all that preventative care will bankrupt us. Except that it's cheaper than the emergency care that we already pay for at inflated costs.

How do you abuse a doctor? Should parents not call them to ask questions when they have a sick child and maybe schedule a checkup? Or is it far better to have them bring their sick child to the emergency room at 11pm because they don't have anywhere else to go and they are worried about their child?

Maybe they should just suck it up. Hey, sometimes kids die. No big woop, right?

Quote:
Just like they do whenever the government comes in, kills competition, and picks and chooses who gets the $$.
How does every other modern nation manage to provide universal coverage for less money per person than we already spend on our private non-universal system? Magic health care gnomes?

Why are we so incompetent that we couldn't ever possibly hope to achieve the kind of success that France has?

Quote:
We will lose our doctors to a country with free market healthcare, just like many countries have lost their doctors to us over the years.
Like who? China? India? Russia? There aren't many nations left with free market health care because most modernized nations have figured something out which we refuse to.

  sorry if I sound snippy, I've been at the sauce again... <3 
__________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monsters_Are_Due_on_Maple_Street

Last edited by pyramid; 11-03-2007 at 04:35 AM..
Old 11-02-2007, 11:22 PM pyramid is offline  
Reply With Quote
#44  

Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:46 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.