General [M]ayhem

Go Back   General [M]ayhem > Real Time Sub-Forums > The Pit
Register Members List Mark Forums Read [M]erchandise Calendar

Reply
 
Thread Tools
TheHandiMan
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lopoetve View Post
Your post is full of shit. Go read flyboys and try again. Hirohito kept demanding a decisive victory: he was almost childish about it, in fact. He was as much the cause as anyone else in that mess.

Politely fuck off until you know what you're talking about.

Do you have any other sources besides an author's perspective?

btw, i read the wiki on that book (too find out what it was about) and Hirohito didn't come up once.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lopoetve View Post
you have got to be kidding me, right? We blew one up in their face: They ignored it. It took TWO of the things to get them to give up.

this is again under the assumption that the bombs ended the war. Either way we still never talked with them
__________________
https://www.facebook.com/ohcoolthatsnice

Last edited by TheHandiMan; 11-07-2007 at 01:41 PM..
Old 11-07-2007, 01:33 PM TheHandiMan is offline  
Reply With Quote
#61  

Advertisement [Remove Advertisement]

lopoetve
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHandiMan View Post
Do you have any other sources besides an author's perspective?

btw, i read the wiki on that book (too find out what it was about) and Hirohito didn't come up once.



this is again under the assumption that the bombs ended the war. Either way we still never talked with them

because a wiki is always reliable? He's got a whole ~pile~ of references at the end of the book. He's reporting news and actual in person interviews from survivors, including Japanese officers, plus other sources. He had several sections on Hirohito.

And we did talk to them We demanded a surrender after detonating the trinity bomb. They refused; called it a trick. Same deal after Little Boy.
__________________
"You always gotta question the culinary excellence of food items which propel themselves out of cans"-LilMsCanBeRite
[M]otorcycle krew - 2011 Triumph Street Triple R. (Bwah?!?)
2013 ZL1 Camaro
2007 GTI
1997 Truck thingy.
Old 11-07-2007, 01:52 PM lopoetve is offline  
Reply With Quote
#62  

Mr. Greg
I'm obsessed with DHermit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHandiMan View Post
I meant that we could've started talks months before the bombs. That way all those Americans that "would've" died during negotiations would've likely died had we dropped the bombs, if that makes sense..

And that's assuming that they would of come to the table in the early months of 1945. Despite the Japanese Navy's backs being broken in the battle of Leyte Gulf, they didn't give up, as is evidenced by Operation Ten-Go the next April.

Quote:
I guess this is where you and I differ, if you feel ending the war was worth the amount of civilian deaths
Exactly.



Quote:
This is just arrogant. The whole idea that we can't talk because 'were better than you' or 'were punishing you' or whatever is just plain arrogant and needs to stop.
Unconditional surrender is what we wanted, and what we aimed for.

Quote:
and how can you ask me a question like "how many American lives are worth peace" and then say we had no need for barters or prisoner swaps?
I asked you how many American lives would be worth losing if we would of wasted our time negotiating with such an uncompromising government.


Quote:
this is why i said "It would've been best to negotiate in the months leading up to the dropping of the bombs" In my opinion it's pretty hard to "waste time" by negotiating.
"time wasted" is meant by the number of people who would of died while the negotiations would of taken place. Why waste our time dealing with imperial brass who will only surrender with so many stipulations when we can bring them to justice in the fullest?


Quote:
Hirohito wanted to surrender since May that a good 2 months before the bombs dropped. And the bombs weren't the only things mentioned.
I'm not saying the bombs were the only factor that caused the surrender, I'm saying they were the breaking point that made him carry out the surrender.




Quote:
Maybe at the time it would've been a bold statement, at least to the ill informed. However today it can be said with almost certainty.

excerpt from wikipedia (source link below)
Quote:
In hindsight, it would have been more effective to use land-based and carrier-based air power to strike against merchant shipping and begin aerial mining at a much earlier date so as to link up with the effective Allied submarine anti-shipping campaign and completely isolate the island nation. This would have accelerated the strangulation of Japan and ended the war sooner.
That isolation plan would of had to go into action much earlier to be as effective as claimed. By mid-1945, the window to execute that plan was long past.


Quote:
So if it's an act of desperation it's bad? I'm sorry but they both have the same effect, therefore I'm gonna have to say their(sic) both bad. (atrocities would be a better term)
They have the same effect?

So you're saying that if Germany dropped a nuke on US soil mid-European campaign, we would up and Surrender and withdraw all of our troops from all theaters, declaring defeat?

The situations were completely different. We used it as a final strike against the enemy, they would of used it as an act of desperation.
__________________
Moose's brother.

Louis Potgieter (1951-1996) NEVER FORGET
Old 11-07-2007, 02:04 PM Mr. Greg is offline  
Reply With Quote
#63  

joemama
Watch Toomer burn those cowboys. How bout them cowboys?
 
joemama's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHandiMan View Post
this is again under the assumption that the bombs ended the war. Either way we still never talked with them
You talk as if the leaders of Japan were frantically waving white flags at the US forces and they ignored it and dropped the bombs anyway. You really know nothing about the Japanese mindset during that time period...the fanaticism of the Japanese people (soldier and civilian alike) makes Al Quaeda look like a limp wristed, half-hearted organization. Until the Emporer (which they saw as godlike) gave the word..virtually every man, woman and child would have fought to the death if their mainland were invaded. It wasn't so much that Japan was dragging their feet on surrender (even after the first bomb) but if the war hadn't ended before Stalin got involved (Russia declared war days before) then the world would be a much different place today.
__________________
Rapid-fire double bass of the GenMay dru[M]mers collective

Syndrome of a Downs- drums/songwriter
._--_|\
/ииииииии\
\_.--Bumfuck Egypt
.......v
Old 11-07-2007, 02:10 PM joemama is offline  
Reply With Quote
#64  

Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:17 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.