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A Ho
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coach
The church never said you would go to hell for voting for a pro choice candidate
He was out of step with the church when he said so. Unless the pope makes a statement which supports this archbishop's it is not doctrine.
exactly. namely, arthur pendragon and Asmodeus were the ones telling me it was a damnable offense because the archbishop said it.
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Old 09-05-2004, 10:38 AM A Ho is offline  
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LegendKiller
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coach
The church never said you would go to hell for voting for a pro choice candidate
He was out of step with the church when he said so. Unless the pope makes a statement which supports this archbishop's it is not doctrine.


No, but they have said they would deny communion to pro-choice candidates and even considered denying it to pro-choice voters. Isn't communion required, more or less, to get into heaven?
Old 09-05-2004, 10:39 AM LegendKiller is offline  
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coach
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Ho
exactly. namely, arthur pendragon and Asmodeus were the ones telling me it was a damnable offense because the archbishop said it.

Oh, well that being the case, I guess my end of the debate is fairly well resolved. Having said that, I shall eagerly await their replies
Old 09-05-2004, 10:40 AM coach is offline  
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coach
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendKiller
No, but they have said they would deny communion to pro-choice candidates and even considered denying it to pro-choice voters. Isn't communion required, more or less, to get into heaven?

Keep in mind when you read this, I am not Catholic, so my answer will be less reliable than an actual Catholic's response, but I will do my best. I don't THINK that Communion is required for ent.rance to Heaven, but it certainly doesn't hurt. I think the thing they stress more is the confession, where they can be forgiven of their sins. Again, this is just one archbishop who spoke out of step with the church. If this were actual church doctrine, the Pope would push for it to be cannonized into official church doctrine. This is really more or less just one archbishop who is trying to make a statement.

edit: the period was added in "ent.rance" for that stupid smiley.
Old 09-05-2004, 10:43 AM coach is offline  
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#19  

A Ho
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendKiller
In the end it comes down to this.


1. All books of religion are logic traps. They are meant to make sure you follow a specific path in life, that path is walled with traps. The organization makes sure that your whole life is built around that book.

2. The role of the organization is to make sure they stay in power. They do this by making sure the book is written well, and their followers don't stray.

3. The way that they stay in power is to make sure they create tools to do their bidding. By ensuring the tools are in places of power they also ensure that the rest of society stays on those paths.

4. If they feel they are losing power, they beat you over the head with the book (Hard heart, no communion, going to hell...etc), trying to get you back on the path.


Fools like Arthur, et al. do nothing than spread this control around. They have been conditioned to NOT question the power, else they go to hell. It is in the church's interests to foster these extremists, lest others get out of control.


In the end, organized religion is about staying in power, absolute control, and manipulation of the common man.


Shit, look at the Vatican. You can't tell me that city was built because people just felt like it. It was built because they were told they would go to hell if they didn't built it.


LK
i agree, but not completely. i think the extreme ones are at fault, the ones who extend the religion beyond personal lives onto the lives of others. they wonder why there is a shortage of priests and other clergy. it's because no one wants to commit themselves to a life hierarchical brainwashing. not that the faith is the brainwashing, but committing yourself to forcing it upon others. Scripture say "preach the good news" not "force the good news upon people."
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Old 09-05-2004, 10:45 AM A Ho is offline  
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isugoat
 
Quote:
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Raymond Burke, Archbishop of St. Louis, has officially flip-flopped (word used to so conservative nutjobs understand)




etc.
Old 09-05-2004, 11:15 AM isugoat is offline  
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#21  

arthur pendragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Ho
?
First of all he does not speak for the Catholic Church, he speak on his own behalf. Second you are missing a very important aspect of what he is saying. Only Catholics have mortal and venal sins. He is saying that voting for a pro-choice politician is not a mortal sin, but is still a venal sin.

Quote:

Burke now says a Catholic could vote for an abortion rights politician without committing a grave sin after weighing all the moral issues a candidate stands for. However, a Catholic voter is committing a grave sin if he or she votes for an abortion -rights candidate because of that position, he says.
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Old 09-05-2004, 11:22 AM arthur pendragon is offline  
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lonedawg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Ho
you guys seemed think he spoke for the entire catholic church when he was saying that voting for a pro-choice candidate is a grave sin and those voters shouldn't get communion. your point?

I never said that, I never posted anything near that.
Old 09-05-2004, 11:24 AM lonedawg is offline  
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#23  

arthur pendragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Ho
i agree, but not completely. i think the extreme ones are at fault, the ones who extend the religion beyond personal lives onto the lives of others. they wonder why there is a shortage of priests and other clergy. it's because no one wants to commit themselves to a life hierarchical brainwashing. not that the faith is the brainwashing, but committing yourself to forcing it upon others. Scripture say "preach the good news" not "force the good news upon people."

The ignorance is strong with you, a mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Quote:
preach ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prch)
v. preached, preach·ing, preach·es
v. tr.
  1. To proclaim or put forth in a sermon: preached the gospel.
  2. To advocate, especially to urge acceptance of or compliance with: preached tolerance and peaceful coexistence.
  3. To deliver (a sermon).
One persons preaching is another retards forcing.
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Old 09-05-2004, 11:25 AM arthur pendragon is offline  
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#24  

A Ho
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arthur pendragon
First of all he does not speak for the Catholic Church, he speak on his own behalf. Second you are missing a very important aspect of what he is saying. Only Catholics have mortal and venal sins. He is saying that voting for a pro-choice politician is not a mortal sin, but is still a venal sin.
read the fucking thread dipshit.
Quote:
Burke said he believes Catholics could vote for a politician who supports abortion rights as long as that’s not the reason they are voting for the candidate. Catholic voters also must believe the candidate’s stance on other moral issues outweighs the abortion rights stance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Ho
...there is much more at stake in this election than ridding the nation of abortion rights. Iraq, the "broken-record" good economy, Iraq, and international terrorism, of which Bush's administration has only bred more along with widespread hatred of the United States.

EDIT: Did I mention Iraq?
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Old 09-05-2004, 11:26 AM A Ho is offline  
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#25  

A Ho
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arthur pendragon
The ignorance is strong with you, a mind is a terrible thing to waste.


One persons preaching is another retards forcing.
preaching is to suggest, not to force. you only bolstered my argument.
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Old 09-05-2004, 11:27 AM A Ho is offline  
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#26  

lonedawg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendKiller
In the end it comes down to this.


1. All books of religion are logic traps. They are meant to make sure you follow a specific path in life, that path is walled with traps. The organization makes sure that your whole life is built around that book.

2. The role of the organization is to make sure they stay in power. They do this by making sure the book is written well, and their followers don't stray.

3. The way that they stay in power is to make sure they create tools to do their bidding. By ensuring the tools are in places of power they also ensure that the rest of society stays on those paths.

4. If they feel they are losing power, they beat you over the head with the book (Hard heart, no communion, going to hell...etc), trying to get you back on the path.


Fools like Arthur, et al. do nothing than spread this control around. They have been conditioned to NOT question the power, else they go to hell. It is in the church's interests to foster these extremists, lest others get out of control.


In the end, organized religion is about staying in power, absolute control, and manipulation of the common man.


Shit, look at the Vatican. You can't tell me that city was built because people just felt like it. It was built because they were told they would go to hell if they didn't built it.


LK

You are aware that some christians and religons don't have some Physical "person" they answer to/follow like a blind dog don't you?

I was raised a baptist, I stopped going to church (I think it's full of hypocrits and such mostly, the kind that would condem a movie with violence in it as a sin blah blah and then turn around and praise passion of the christ), I still beleive in god/pray do all that kind of stuff, however You couldn't get me to follow some "religous" guy around as though he had anykind of power of me.

Then you have other religons like Buddahism and things.
Old 09-05-2004, 11:28 AM lonedawg is offline  
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A Ho
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stiler
I never said that, I never posted anything near that.
"you guys" was meant in a general "nutjob conservative view on abortion" sense.
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Old 09-05-2004, 11:29 AM A Ho is offline  
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Old 09-05-2004, 11:30 AM :ninja: is offline  
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#29  

A Ho
 
Quote:
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Catholics
that's kind of how i'm feeling about it. the catholic church has been highly hypocritical in recent years and they wonder why no one wants to be a priest.
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Old 09-05-2004, 11:35 AM A Ho is offline  
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