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cromicus
I act tough on genmay, but real life im a pussy
 
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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
These theft prevention people have no way to know that he didn't just walk with the mercandise.
He did just walk away with the merchandise. It was his merchandise. He was allowed to walk away with it. Unless he agreed to show the receipt to the doorman, he had no obligation to (he might have agreed to it, but assuming he didn't...).

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Sure the employee reacted incorrectly, but he basically created the situation himself.
That the employee acted incorrectly is sufficient. If it was excusable, then you can't say that he's incorrect, can you?
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Old 03-03-2008, 09:07 PM cromicus is offline  
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cromicus
I act tough on genmay, but real life im a pussy
 
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Originally Posted by Xayd View Post
hook+line+sinker
Exactly. We think that kind of thing is wrong and are outraged when it happens. The parts of the world that don't are the ones that have problems.

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and hey assflutes, i've got a nice counter argument for the store. they have the right to refuse service to anyone too. so next time you refuse to show that receipt, how about they block your name and credit cards from their payment systems, so that you can never go to any of their stores ever again.
Absolutely right.
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Old 03-03-2008, 09:09 PM cromicus is offline  
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PopeKevinI
 
I've refused on numerous occasions. I stand in line to check out, I'm not standing in line again just so some flunkie who is barely aware of his surroundings can say that everything in the bags was paid for. I've been confronted twice about, once by a manager. I told the manager pretty much what's been said here: he had no right and no authority to search my belongings.
Old 03-03-2008, 09:31 PM PopeKevinI is offline  
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wingedbuttmonkey
 
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Originally Posted by PopeKevinI View Post
I've refused on numerous occasions. I stand in line to check out, I'm not standing in line again just so some flunkie who is barely aware of his surroundings can say that everything in the bags was paid for. I've been confronted twice about, once by a manager. I told the manager pretty much what's been said here: he had no right and no authority to search my belongings.

Or you could hand them the receipt and be on your way in 5 seconds. But hey, where's the fun in that? Lets be elitist pricks!!!
Old 03-03-2008, 09:34 PM wingedbuttmonkey is offline  
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PopeKevinI
 
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Or you could hand them the receipt and be on your way in 5 seconds. But hey, where's the fun in that? Lets be elitist pricks!!!

No, it's usually a much longer wait than five seconds. I've seen lines backed up several minutes. I for one am not going to wait in ANOTHER line just because they want to make sure I'm not stealing anything.

If it's that easy to walk out of the store without paying for a large item, maybe they need to review the layout of the store and make it harder to walk out unobserved. Here's a good question: how many shoplifters does that actually catch?
Old 03-03-2008, 09:38 PM PopeKevinI is offline  
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cromicus
I act tough on genmay, but real life im a pussy
 
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Originally Posted by wingedbuttmonkey View Post
Or you could hand them the receipt and be on your way in 5 seconds. But hey, where's the fun in that? Lets be elitist pricks!!!
I don't have a problem helping them with inventory control. But I also respect the fact that not everybody does or has to think like me and they should be allowed to decide for themselves.
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Old 03-03-2008, 09:43 PM cromicus is offline  
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If you give a mouse a cookie...

wtf is this, some kind of slippery slope ?
Old 03-03-2008, 10:02 PM Ralph is offline  
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cromicus
I act tough on genmay, but real life im a pussy
 
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wtf is this, some kind of slippery slope ?
Yup. They'll harass you as invasively as they want as long as you don't take a stand.
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Old 03-03-2008, 10:04 PM cromicus is offline  
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sir tex
 
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Originally Posted by PopeKevinI View Post
No, it's usually a much longer wait than five seconds. I've seen lines backed up several minutes. I for one am not going to wait in ANOTHER line just because they want to make sure I'm not stealing anything.

If it's that easy to walk out of the store without paying for a large item, maybe they need to review the layout of the store and make it harder to walk out unobserved. Here's a good question: how many shoplifters does that actually catch?
whoa, whoa, easy there cool kid. if you actually took the time out and gave it some thought, you'd realize that they're largely there to correct cashier mistakes (well, at fry's they are) and to deter theft, NOT catch thieves. but i have caught my fair share of thieves checking receipts, just so you know.
Old 03-03-2008, 10:10 PM sir tex is offline  
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Mr. Greg
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No lets assume your gay porn shop is huge, has multiple registers open with tons of people in the store. Your saying that if you saw some guy walking towards the door with something in his hand, not in a bag, not carrying a receipt and then refused to show receipt when you asked him, you would just let him walk, shrug your shoulders and carry on?

...No, I would create a case incident report with his description, and his license plate, put it on file, and notify the police. What I described is exactly what every major retailer does.

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Or how about this. You have an employee who works at your store. You are the owner, but you are not there. The employee sees some guy walking out of the store with something, no bag, no receipt and when asked to show a receipt says no and keeps walking. You want that employee to just say ok bye and go on about his business???
Absolutely. Guess who would be liable if my employee would play hero and tackle the guy, and the guy sues? Big-name companies have been sued and have lost against people in the EXACT scenario you described. I've had coworkers fired for that exact reason.

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And you know big businesses like Walmart have lots of theft. You wouldn't want your employees to be proactive about stopping potential theft?
Of course I would. I would educate employees on proper vigilance techniques, and have them notify my Assets Protection employees if they see something amiss. See a trend here?

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You're either stupid, or nuts. That's the point. Rot in hell.


Everything I just described in this post is EXACTLY what Target does for their employees against shoplifting. I suppose Target must be stupid or nuts.
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Last edited by Mr. Greg; 03-03-2008 at 10:32 PM..
Old 03-03-2008, 10:18 PM Mr. Greg is offline  
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Mr. Greg
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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
Yeah, you don't legally HAVE to play along, but there's really no reason to be a jackass about it.

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Even though I agree you shouldn't be REQUIRED to show receipts I think you're just a jackass if you don't...

And yet both of your opinions mean squat, since, as you acknowledge, they're within their rights to do it, and you're never going to change that.

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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
The legal opinion on this seems to be: The store cannot search you without permission. But they can detain you (without using force, apparently) if they think you are shoplifting. Refusing to show a receipt is acceptable as reasonable suspicion for this.

So you're perfectly free to be a jackass and stand up for your right. But you have no room to bitch if they detain you for a while until the police show up and search you. If your rights mean that much to you, hey, knock yourself out. Enjoy making lots of scenes and becoming close personal friends with the local police.

Do you really think that, aside from power-tripping employees, a store's asset protection team considers not showing a receipt probable cause for detainment?

What rights does a corporation have that an individual does not? What prevents me from stopping you on the street after walking past you, accusing you of stealing something of mine, and when you refuse to provide proof that you don't have something of mine, detaining you until the police come and search you to prove your point?
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Old 03-03-2008, 10:31 PM Mr. Greg is offline  
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:ninja:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PopeKevinI View Post
If it's that easy to walk out of the store without paying for a large item, maybe they need to review the layout of the store and make it harder to walk out unobserved. Here's a good question: how many shoplifters does that actually catch?
It's not to catch thieves, it's to deter thieves. It must discourage a significant number of them as well, because they've been checking receipts for a while.

As far as actually catching thieves, people at the door don't really matter. In order to legally detain the suspect and charge him with theft, loss prevention officers must observe the person while in the act. If they *think* you stole something, they can't do jack shit. If they caught you on tape, however, the person at the door can legally prevent you from leaving.
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Old 03-03-2008, 10:36 PM :ninja: is offline  
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Mr. Greg
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whoa, whoa, easy there cool kid. if you actually took the time out and gave it some thought, you'd realize that they're largely there to correct cashier mistakes (well, at fry's they are)

You mean that they're there to make sure cashiers aren't dropping prices intentionally for friends.

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but i have caught my fair share of thieves checking receipts, just so you know.
You've "caught" someone stealing simply by checking receipts, sans video surveillance or anything? That's pretty amazing. What'd they do, admit guilt on the spot?

The only way I can see that happening is if the people have additional things in their bags that aren't on the receipt, but once again, you'd have to have video proof that they put those things in the bags in the first place. Lack of receipt will mean jack shit in court when the person is tried for shoplifting.
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Old 03-03-2008, 10:38 PM Mr. Greg is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red|dragon View Post
Walmart employee deserves an award. He did the right thing.

Jackass shopper should have just shown his receipt

Correct for 10 points!
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Old 03-03-2008, 10:38 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Greg View Post
Why should I have to prove that something is my property? Do they ask receipts for clothing that you have on? Purses that you carry?

He's perfectly in the legal right here. If Wal-Mart security saw him steal and have physical evidence of it that would hold up in the courtroom, he should be detained. If not, any detention is illegal kidnapping.

That's retarded. The store should be allowed to question anything you clearly have not brought in. The clothes you're wearing is a dumb example, since they can check the security cam to verify anyways, but if you're walking out with an item the store stocks than the employee is just doing their job. Otherwise, people would be walking out with all sorts of items that are small but carry no alarm tag and shoplifting would skyrocket.
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Old 03-03-2008, 10:40 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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