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Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
The Thirteenth Floor.

Just watched this, enjoyed it immensely. Thank you for the recommendation.
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Old 05-08-2008, 08:14 PM Renork is offline  
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ShoelessOne
 
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In terms of artificial intelligence and the mind I would argue that there is nothing special about the brain that makes it outside the realm of complete comprehension at some point in the future. The mind/consciousness is nothing but a manifestation of the biological machine that is our central nervous system(+ our senses which I guess could be argued are just an extension of our CNS). I would argue that there is nothing in biology that will not be replicable at some point in the future and since I view the mind/consciousness as nothing but a manifestation of a biological machine it too should be replicable.

Now as for AI there are really two ways I can see to approach it. Replicate the human mind by replicating the biology behind it(blue brain project) or build something new by creating a true 'learning machine' more than likely new data basing approaches combined with a new approach on evolving algorithms.

I guess one of the main opposing viewpoints would come from a religious view point. If you believe that a 'person' or the mind or consciousness is their soul rather than a manifestation of biololgy then of course someone is going to argue that it is not replicable.


This is what I agree with, and I'm quoting it because it's the truth.

Sometimes I honestly think that true human level artificial intelligence is not possible, and I laugh when I see things on TV/computers claiming to be "artificial intelligence" because it's clearly just pre programmed responses to things. But when I really think about it, I realize that on a cellular/molecular level human thought/action/everything biological is just a preprogrammed response to something, and if/when those human made pre programmed responses get small enough and work properly together, there is nothing to stop a true human level intelligence. We are advanced, but not special, and certainly not magic.
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Old 05-08-2008, 09:24 PM ShoelessOne is offline  
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Renork
 
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We are advanced, but not special, and certainly not magic.

Exactly.
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Old 05-08-2008, 10:15 PM Renork is offline  
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Opajew
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So I came up with a theory on the thought of artificial intelligence while thinking about newer human-like robotics. My prof argued that if you had to build a robot to think for itself, you would be confined by an algorithm which would always be plagued by limitations which would never be as good as the real thing (a human mind). I proposed the idea that it is very possible that the human mind has no intelligence, it in itself is simply a complex algorithm. This would defeat free will in a sense, but I ted out how it would work. Basically, all actions are motivated by self-interest. Some of these things vary between person to person, whether it is hereditary or learned by association. The basic needs are at the top, food, reproduction, safety. Every decision I make is affected by these things in an algorithmic fashion. Someone made a counter-argument about things like charity, but the answer is simple. When someone is charitable, it is STILL within the confines of self-interest. Ego and pleasure are also basic needs. I CHOOSE to help out someone else, because I will benefit from it. Not monetarily, but it will help my ego. I will feel better about it, and in turn, I have acted from self-interest. Whether I choose to get high or not can be solved with an algorithm. I compare the two and decide which will benefit me most. So it's between comfort or health, and somewhere through my conditioning, in my programming, comfort is more important to me than health, so I make that decision. Everything is traceable backwards to a clear decision of self-interest, even it's because I wore a red shirt instead of a black shirt because of some profound experience when I was younger that behaviorally associated me to the color red for whatever situation I was going to be in. I hope this is clear enough to understand, but it seems as though while most people are trying to create artificial intelligence to resemble real intelligence, artificial intelligence IS real intelligence. Our minds are just computers, solving the algorithm of our biology.

artificial intelligence would exist if the algorithm could modify itself to add new info and situations, ie experience and learn.
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Old 05-08-2008, 11:13 PM Opajew is offline  
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Opajew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoelessOne View Post
This is what I agree with, and I'm quoting it because it's the truth.

Sometimes I honestly think that true human level artificial intelligence is not possible, and I laugh when I see things on TV/computers claiming to be "artificial intelligence" because it's clearly just pre programmed responses to things. But when I really think about it, I realize that on a cellular/molecular level human thought/action/everything biological is just a preprogrammed response to something, and if/when those human made pre programmed responses get small enough and work properly together, there is nothing to stop a true human level intelligence. We are advanced, but not special, and certainly not magic.

I do think it is possible and one day will be reached, in a perfect form that is true manufactured intelligence. it's not gonna be tomorrow, but it's gonna take a very large parallel processing computer to run that algorithm.
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RIP sam, best KITTAH ever.... :(

3-27-03.....

mark my words, the Athlon64 will be the GeForce FX of CPUs when it comes out. -the terabyte
mark my words - someday i will host a LAN this big.. sure, it'll be when im 35 or something, but i will.. -T
Old 05-08-2008, 11:15 PM Opajew is offline  
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ry_goody
 
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Originally Posted by ShoelessOne View Post
We are advanced, but not special, and certainly not magic.

I disagree with this completely. We are advanced, incredibly special and we are in fact magic.

The truth is, we as a human race as a whole have as much control over the fate of mother earth as the cosmos and mother earth herself. With the advent of our mass nuclear arsenal, our paranoid anxiety ridden delusional cultures. In all honesty, we are a greater threat to the earth than any comet, we are more a threat to the earth than any amount of global warming (especially when you add in the debate that global warming is BS). To say we are not special is absurd. Aside from being the current and most pertinent hinge point as to the direction the gaian and human enterprise will teeter, we are also the most complexified form in our known existence. We are reptilian instinct, plus mammalian instinct, plus advanced phonetic communication, plus advanced metaphorical comprehension, plus art, plus culture, plus technology. We are the current holder's of the evolutionary ball for all lifeforms on earth, it is going to go wherever we throw the thing. We are in fact inheritor's of the function of God as a collective human race because of this, we are inventing, we are producing, we are creating the components, the technology, or lack of technology, that we are in the future going to biologically form around and will ultimately integrate with gaia and retool it's collective function. As technology will, or will not, provide an evolutionary advantage thus our biological makeup, our DNA, and that of related species, will alter itself appropriately to take this into account, we will at some point be genetically attuned to technology and our creations. We are in fact controlling the mutation of our DNA, the most advanced DNA in the known vicinity of the universe. Which I say, as this brings me to my next point, we are not magical? Well what is your context of magic? The fact that we are quite literally shaping the evolutionary direction of our DNA, that our actions right now are going to be integrating new radical components into the genetic makeup and abilities of mind in coming generations seems quite obviously magical. If you could enter in the collective unconscious mind, manifested as a singular massive energetic deity in a higher dimension, in which the passing of seconds represents 100's of year in our time, this manifested human collective would quite literally be sitting there consciously willing itself into higher realms of conciousness, awareness and ability. Causing direct mutation by it's mere will to do so. If this is not magical, I do not know what is, this is quite literally the function of shapeshifting.
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Old 05-09-2008, 01:40 AM ry_goody is offline  
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Old 05-09-2008, 09:48 AM Renork is offline  
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Opajew
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Quote:
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I disagree with this completely. We are advanced, incredibly special and we are in fact magic.

The truth is, we as a human race as a whole have as much control over the fate of mother earth as the cosmos and mother earth herself. With the advent of our mass nuclear arsenal, our paranoid anxiety ridden delusional cultures. In all honesty, we are a greater threat to the earth than any comet, we are more a threat to the earth than any amount of global warming (especially when you add in the debate that global warming is BS). To say we are not special is absurd. Aside from being the current and most pertinent hinge point as to the direction the gaian and human enterprise will teeter, we are also the most complexified form in our known existence. We are reptilian instinct, plus mammalian instinct, plus advanced phonetic communication, plus advanced metaphorical comprehension, plus art, plus culture, plus technology. We are the current holder's of the evolutionary ball for all lifeforms on earth, it is going to go wherever we throw the thing. We are in fact inheritor's of the function of God as a collective human race because of this, we are inventing, we are producing, we are creating the components, the technology, or lack of technology, that we are in the future going to biologically form around and will ultimately integrate with gaia and retool it's collective function. As technology will, or will not, provide an evolutionary advantage thus our biological makeup, our DNA, and that of related species, will alter itself appropriately to take this into account, we will at some point be genetically attuned to technology and our creations. We are in fact controlling the mutation of our DNA, the most advanced DNA in the known vicinity of the universe. Which I say, as this brings me to my next point, we are not magical? Well what is your context of magic? The fact that we are quite literally shaping the evolutionary direction of our DNA, that our actions right now are going to be integrating new radical components into the genetic makeup and abilities of mind in coming generations seems quite obviously magical. If you could enter in the collective unconscious mind, manifested as a singular massive energetic deity in a higher dimension, in which the passing of seconds represents 100's of year in our time, this manifested human collective would quite literally be sitting there consciously willing itself into higher realms of conciousness, awareness and ability. Causing direct mutation by it's mere will to do so. If this is not magical, I do not know what is, this is quite literally the function of shapeshifting.

are you high?
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RIP sam, best KITTAH ever.... :(

3-27-03.....

mark my words, the Athlon64 will be the GeForce FX of CPUs when it comes out. -the terabyte
mark my words - someday i will host a LAN this big.. sure, it'll be when im 35 or something, but i will.. -T
Old 05-09-2008, 10:20 AM Opajew is offline  
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ry_goody
 
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are you high?

High on oxygen man. Focusing your energy into breathing allows you to push away contaminants and unnecessary particles in the air delivering to your lungs continuous breath fulls of air with a far higher percentage of oxygen giving a constant euphoria.
No, not really... I'm not really serious about that.
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Old 05-09-2008, 11:49 AM ry_goody is offline  
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Emo Bitch
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i know people bash on ry_goody but in all honestly his theories make perfect sense to me, or are things that i have percieved already on my own. i guess people just call you crazy because they dont get it or dont like to think about it
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Old 05-12-2008, 10:00 PM Emo Bitch is offline  
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