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Free_Willy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RuHo View Post
What is this socialist banter? Are you saying the free media should serve you, instead of exercising their own freedom of publishing and dishing out what the fuck ever they like?

Yes, I am saying the media should serve the people because that is what a republics media does, serves to inform the people. In socialist systems it serves the ruling body, thus information that keeps the people free does not become availible.

In a fascist system, where corporate rule is the order of the day, Media serves the interests of the corporations, we witness today a corporate fascist reality in america, thus the phenomena known as "fox news".

It will be even worse under Hillary the Marxist.


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I thought everyone else was socialist here but you. I'd say thats a pretty good example of you wanting to impose terror on people to serve the state. Fuck the constitution man
Please understand and define terms concerning what "socialist" means before you speak about it. I sir, am about as far from socialist as one can ever be. I am in modern english a Conservative Libertarian, about 75-100 years ago I would be called a Republican, and in legalese I am referred to as a constitutional moderate.

"Though [the people] may acquiesce, they cannot approve what they do not understand." --Thomas Jefferson



Quote:
PS. Shit prisonplanet video, the moment I saw the URL I clicked stop. thanks gg come again
You are quick to dismiss that which you have not tasted. Strawman, it is in evvaluating the influences that make up others minds for ourselves that we free mankind as a whole and individually. To not endeavor to understand others guarantees wars and unhappiness.

"I look to the diffusion of light and education as the resource most to be relied on for ameliorating the conditions, promoting the virtue and advancing the happiness of man." --Thomas Jefferson to Cornelius Camden Blatchly

Please understand what socialism is before you speak about it. It is a moderate click on the graph between communism and republic. Communism----Socialism---Republic----Oligarchy---Fascism.

Public service DVD, watch this so when we speak the terms are defined and were speaking about the same thing, its not long.

+ Google Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then Google Video is down or you don't have Flash installed.
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Old 10-30-2007, 11:38 PM Free_Willy is offline  
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jehovahshizness
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Old 10-31-2007, 01:12 PM jehovahshizness is offline  
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Straw Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ry_goody View Post
interacting with normal people has never been easier and more rewarding

Or do you mean cause of all those thoughts that creep into your head "are they thinking this about me, are they thinking that"? Well, I programmed such automated brain processes out of me long ago. Theres only me and contentedness.

the first time a typical US citizen stumbles on the basis of enlightenment it will come out as manic depression

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Old 10-31-2007, 01:40 PM Straw Man is offline  
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Straw Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free_Willy View Post
Yes, I am saying the media should serve the people because that is what a republics media does, serves to inform the people. In socialist systems it serves the ruling body, thus information that keeps the people free does not become availible.
So you're saying freedom of speech is only yours, and you're the one to dictate anyone elses sayings, be it corporate or individual?
Quote:
In a fascist system, where corporate rule is the order of the day, Media serves the interests of the corporations, we witness today a corporate fascist reality in america, thus the phenomena known as "fox news".
and you serve your fucking interest
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It will be even worse under Hillary the Marxist.
You're already setting yourself up for the whine aren't you? Good thing for you RP won't make it, fuck you'd be out of a scapegoat or you'd have to turn coat


Quote:

Please understand and define terms concerning what "socialist" means before you speak about it. I sir, am about as far from socialist as one can ever be. I am in modern english a Conservative Libertarian, about 75-100 years ago I would be called a Republican, and in legalese I am referred to as a constitutional moderate.
roffles
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"Though [the people] may acquiesce, they cannot approve what they do not understand." --Thomas Jefferson
"Goddamn, I fucking died ages ago"
-Thomas Jefferson




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You are quick to dismiss that which you have not tasted. Strawman, it is in evvaluating the influences that make up others minds for ourselves that we free mankind as a whole and individually. To not endeavor to understand others guarantees wars and unhappiness.
Wow you really should start a poetry project or something
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"I look to the diffusion of light and education as the resource most to be relied on for ameliorating the conditions, promoting the virtue and advancing the happiness of man." --Thomas Jefferson to Cornelius Camden Blatchly
"Goddamnit, I'm still fucking dead"
Thomas Jefferson to the next century

Quote:
Please understand what socialism is before you speak about it. It is a moderate click on the graph between communism and republic. Communism----Socialism---Republic----Oligarchy---Fascism.
*yawn*
Quote:
Public service DVD, watch this so when we speak the terms are defined and were speaking about the same thing, its not long.

+ Google Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then Google Video is down or you don't have Flash installed.
nigaru, plz
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Old 10-31-2007, 01:48 PM Straw Man is offline  
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arthur pendragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSM View Post
It's just frustrating and disappointing. So many credulous slack-jawed idiots- 70% of the world's population, I'd wager- holding our species back from our potential. And the worst part is that almost every leader of every country in the world (including USA), as well as almost every judge, governor, cop, soldier, celebrity, reporter, tv/radio personality, etc., is part of the 70%. That's why our species will probably destroy itself in some future holy war.

It sucks being a smart person in a world of idiots, primarily full of idiots, primarily ruled and maintained by idiots. There is so little intelligence in the human gene pool, it amazes me that the Rennaissance, scientific revolution, and enlightenment could even take place on this planet, not to mention modern science. In a world of idiot children, how did the 30% who aren't idiots manage to get science off the ground? Amazing...

ps: 'That's ironic, b/c you are an idiot (insert link to other thread by me here) '

K, we got the joke out of the way. Please give good responses now.

pps: there's another thread in the pit asking 'can we just let go of god now?' The answer is no, b/c 70% of people are just too fucking senseless, credulous, and illogical to let that happen. As we see with responses in that very thread (responses like "dude, you should just be like, respectful of people's beliefs") Fucking idiots.

Must be nice being so fucking smart......
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Old 10-31-2007, 04:12 PM arthur pendragon is offline  
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Ray Charles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RuHo View Post
missed!
I don't care what natural event you are interested in. What I did say though, is that you were quick to state there is only one possible natural event of such type.

That doesn't matter. There is no suggestion, or even evidence, to suggest that any other outcome wouldn't be favourable in the terms that are being discussed.

Looking at the evidence I have, I believe that I can discount all of the natural explanations for the event that I've come across. If you would like to offer your own idea on what could have happened, I'll be happy to consider it.

Quote:
You are presenting an argument where you state the occurance of life is pretty much a whim, based on an anomaly and one in a zillion kabillion chance. I'm very sure you cannot rationally explain how you came to these conclusions, nor can you really prove them, so saying you don't understand the rules sounds correct does it not?
I'm not sure what you're talking about here. If you're talking about the origin of life, that's not what I was talking about.

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It is foolish until you present a supernatural occurance of any kind.
If you refuse to consider a cause because it's never been proven to you before, then it'll never be proven the first time.
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Old 11-01-2007, 09:13 PM Ray Charles is offline  
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Originally Posted by möbiustrip View Post
Once you take a supernatural "explanation" of cause and effect, you stop looking for a productive one. Even the spiritualist analogue of a "scientist" who acts to the best of his or her "expert" knowledge will tell you the results are hit or miss. Random. Mysterious.

This crapshoot is the miserable default state of being alive. We invented the scientific method because it's better: trial and error let us view the natural world as a machine functioning with clockwork precision. Surviving a plague or a thunderstorm stopped being a matter of luck based on the incomprehensible caprice of gods.

The modern-day spiritualist separates the "realms" of science and religion. In doing so, he limits himself to only hoping to understand the things he already does. This setup makes his faith -- his identity -- a player in hide-and-seek against the rest of civilization. It's not flattering to either. The only God I can imagine is one that set the world to function according to rules. I call it math.

If some sort of sentient supernatural entity exists, then the scientific method isn't a valid tool to use to investigate it. There's no reason to suppose its actions would be any more consistent than the actions of people. While people's general reactions can be anticipated, what any given person will do in a situation can not be predicted with any accuracy. If God exists, there's no reason for Him to provide consistent results to any series of experiments.

It's also obvious that the majority of the time, the world operates according to a set of rules. When we're trying to do anything, we should only expect that the outcome will be consistent with the rules that we've observed. However, it seems logical that if God set the rules in place, then He may have the power to temporarily override them. This would be where miracles occur. The challenge is for us to discern when we simply don't understand an event's cause, and when an event actually breaks the rules.

Quote:
I offered you questions to prompt insight into persuasion, peer pressure, short-term memory, image association, linguistic programming, and creativity. All fascinating psychological topics no one pretends we understand well. You turned your back on all of them. My assertion is that spiritualism has been doing this for thousands of years; only lately has it rescinded claim over all natural phenomena save human behavior.

Meanwhile, bold scientists are asking how the universe itself might have come to be. Do you believe we will never answer these questions, or are you content knowing your faith will someday reside in a gap no one ever supposed might exist?
Your questions did indeed prompt me to thoroughly review the events and situation where I believe that the miracle occured. I came to the conclusion that there really wasn't a chance for these psychological effects to produce the events I witnessed. I certainly didn't turn my back on the possibility, but I don't believe that those things could have produced the event.

Honestly, I don't pretend to know how the universe came to be. I won't offer an opinion on who I think is right in that debate because I haven't ever closely studied the topic. It's not really an issue that interests me. I believe that all scientific endeavor simply unearths things that God has done or different rules that He has set. I don't see that scientific advancement and religious thinking have to be mutually exclusive.

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What does it mean to "ignore" the evidence, as opposed to cooking up some flimsy ad-hoc probability argument to justify what you wanted to believe in the first place? Do you doubt a respectful awareness of the phenomena I suggested are involved will prove more fruitful than the supernatural cop-out?
When I talk about ignoring the evidence, I mean that when I witness an event that's extremely unlikely to have occurred and my friends and family have their own similar stories, it seems rediculous that all of it is simple chance. I prefer to bring up my own example because it's one I'm intimately familiar with, but my experience is not unique. Even though God's face never appeared in the sky above me, I've encountered enough of these stories to convince me that God is real.

In this, I'm not talking about the specifics of this case.

Quote:
If you want me to logically deconstruct your "math" six posts up I'll be glad to. What I was getting at with the Golden Tard quip is that you've assigned, after the fact, an extremely low probability to an event that happened. The probability says it didn't, unless 999999 other youth groups went home empty-handed. But I'm guessing they all (miraculously) had a similar faith-affirming experience. Statistics says your assigned probability must be wrong, or the game is rigged.

My primary gripe is that you're using probability to sell a "miracle" capable of defying it. Science and logic don't prove anything where you refuse to admit them.
This is the whole point of what I'm saying. Probability is just a mathematical construct, but it aptly describes the natural rules of the world. Therefore, if something seems to defy probability, the game is probably rigged. If the game is rigged, then it means that something is operating outside our normal rules of nature and is affecting the outcome. An event that seems to contradict the world's rules (probability among them) is the only kind of event that could be a miracle.
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Old 11-01-2007, 10:18 PM Ray Charles is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Mobi and mathlete are so going to tear you a new asshole.
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Old 11-01-2007, 10:21 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Charles View Post


This is the whole point of what I'm saying. Probability is just a mathematical construct, but it aptly describes the natural rules of the world. Therefore, if something seems to defy probability, the game is probably rigged. If the game is rigged, then it means that something is operating outside our normal rules of nature and is affecting the outcome. An event that seems to contradict the world's rules (probability among them) is the only kind of event that could be a miracle.

If something seems to defy probability you are a moron. Because what seems to defy probality to you( that you are not a fucking wackjob) to me seems a certainty
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Old 11-01-2007, 11:03 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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It's also obvious that the majority of the time, the world operates according to a set of rules. When we're trying to do anything, we should only expect that the outcome will be consistent with the rules that we've observed. However, it seems logical that if God set the rules in place, then He may have the power to temporarily override them. This would be where miracles occur. The challenge is for us to discern when we simply don't understand an event's cause, and when an event actually breaks the rules.


It seems logical? Why does it seem logical in the first place to think that it is necessary for a being to have put the rules into place? It is simply how things are. The fact is that there is existence, so this should be sufficient reason to thing it is probable. We don't need to gawk at the 'huge impossibility' of any certain event happening and assume that the only way for it to have happened was through some divine intervention.
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Old 11-05-2007, 03:27 PM koomba is offline  
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house
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Charles View Post
First off, you need to make an effort to be concise and clear in your writing. It's difficult for me to even understand what you're trying to say, never mind what you mean.

Agreed. Ry , people wouldn't think your such a loon if you would make some effort into clairity, conciseness and structure to your posts. There is value in clarity and conciseness if you at all want to effectively communicate with others. If you don't see any value in it ... well there isn't much of a point posting publicly is there ? You might as well stick to writing notes to yourself offline.
Old 11-06-2007, 12:46 AM house is offline  
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arthur pendragon
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Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
If something seems to defy probability you are a moron. Because what seems to defy probality to you( that you are not a fucking wackjob) to me seems a certainty

You mean like causation? come on buddy boy, lets see you dance past the most basic and fundamental law of physics. Cause and affect, affect never precedes cause.
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Old 11-06-2007, 09:25 AM arthur pendragon is offline  
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You mean like causation? come on buddy boy, lets see you dance past the most basic and fundamental law of physics. Cause and affect, affect never precedes cause.

Except in time travel. Didn't you pay attention in Temporal Mechanics 101?

Wait...that's not until after warp drive. Nevermind. Forget I said anything.
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Old 11-06-2007, 09:40 AM PopeKevinI is offline  
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arthur pendragon
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Originally Posted by PopeKevinI View Post
Except in time travel. Didn't you pay attention in Temporal Mechanics 101?

Wait...that's not until after warp drive. Nevermind. Forget I said anything.

Whats happening Pope??? Life still treating you good?
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It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion
Old 11-06-2007, 10:48 AM arthur pendragon is offline  
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Straw Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arthur pendragon View Post
You mean like causation? come on buddy boy, lets see you dance past the most basic and fundamental law of physics. Cause and affect, affect never precedes cause.

what do these "fundamental laws of physics" say about the supernatural
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Old 11-06-2007, 03:26 PM Straw Man is offline  
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