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jat187
 
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former

- Albert Einstein


So live with it and stop your whining.
Old 09-08-2007, 02:06 PM jat187 is offline  
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#46  

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Tom Kazansky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PopeKevinI View Post
Kind of like Christians and Muslims and every other religious groups speaks what they absolutely see as true.

How are your subjective observations superior to anyone else's? Besides the fact that you claim to be exceptionally intelligent, something for which there is far less supporting evidence than for Christianity.



So true!
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Old 09-08-2007, 03:07 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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#47  

SnakeIRye
 
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I disagree. The problem is largely one of ignorance, not lack of intellectual capacity. What makes it so bad is make cultures compel people to remain ignorant: religious fundamentalism, ghetto cultures, any variation of what most people would call redneck--poor rural people...what they all have in common is a notion that straying too far from the pack is a Bad Thing.

I firmly believe that most people could be (or at least could have been) educated to a much higher level than they will reach. Most people realize a fraction of their potential.

Agreed in the fullest.

Though I believe the problem with people in america being ignorant, starts with the k12 education system(can't speak for 3rd world countries). 'The smart kids go over here and get lots of pats on the back for being born gifted and the rest of you don't have natural talent and must struggle to retain information, that's how life is.' or 'Sit here, obey and do meaningless work that has nothing to do with bettering yourself, your intelligence or your education, so you can be good workers when you leave.'
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Old 09-08-2007, 03:25 PM SnakeIRye is offline  
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#48  

Escaped Gorilla Genitals
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Originally Posted by Ray Charles View Post
I don't think that this is out of line. FSM's main thrust in making this thread was to say that all religious people are morons. I can pretty easily disprove that.

I was agreeing with you
Old 09-08-2007, 03:30 PM Escaped Gorilla Genitals is offline  
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I was agreeing with you

Ohhhhhh

Ohhhh

Ohh

...

What?

I guess he's right after all then
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Old 09-08-2007, 04:18 PM Ray Charles is offline  
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#50  

Juturna
 
People who belittle others are just as destructive a force as these so-called "idiots". We need decent leaders, not condescending whiners.
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Old 09-08-2007, 06:00 PM Juturna is offline  
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#51  

möbiustrip
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Charles View Post
Let me clarify: Based upon my own experience, I've concluded that (the Christian) God exists.
Okay, hit me.

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When viewed in a vacuum, perhaps Christ's resurrection doesn't make sense.
Vacuum.

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


What information don't I have, that when I assert every single day in history, the sun has risen, the sun has set, and what's been dead three days stays dead...there is any arguing about it?

Quote:
However, my faith isn't based upon that event.
Then you're confused -- the Christian faith (y'know...yours) is based on it. Check again, are you sure you didn't just decide you'd get religious and picked one that was handy?

"Thank you for your interest in God. For Abraham, press 1. For Vishnu press 2. For Buddha, press 3. For the spirits of your ancestors, *BEEP*

You entered: YAHWEH. Is this correct? *BEEP*

For the groovy living Christ, press 1 and the Romans will be along to exterminate you shortly. For the trippy, cryptic risen Christ whose mission to reveal God's covenant to pay for the sins of mankind in fulfillment of prophecy will be explained in a series of hallucinatory letters by a soldier who never met him, press 2 . Otherwise, press #. *BEEP*"

Quote:
Something else convinced me, so it's relatively easy to accept the miracles in the Bible as being miracles.
That just means you're gullible. Miracles (magic) aren't a corollary of any rational experience, they're miraculous (magical). You don't get your palm read, win the lottery, and start "believing" crystals cure cancer.

I can understand if maybe you witnessed one first-hand, being open to the possibility miracles happen, but you'd have to be damn careful you didn't wind up like ry_goody by abandoning skepticism. Surely there's a bigger difference between you two than knowing what professed "beliefs" make people think you're a fruitcake.

Quote:
Part of God being God is that He can do some things that we can't (or maybe just don't) understand.
It's circular reasoning. God isn't God without miracles, He's just physics. Miracles aren't miracles without God, they're coincidence. One or the other's existence requires an arbitrary leap of faith.

At the end of the day, you're parsing your experience with mythological symbolism -- an authority figure's explanation of metaphors, in modern Western (contrast, ancient Jewish) context, from a translation of an edited compilation of "historical" documents of dubious authorship that are factually inconsistent.
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Old 09-08-2007, 07:05 PM möbiustrip is offline  
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#52  

Ray Charles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by möbiustrip View Post
Okay, hit me.

Vacuum.

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


What information don't I have, that when I assert every single day in history, the sun has risen, the sun has set, and what's been dead three days stays dead...there is any arguing about it?

Then you're confused -- the Christian faith (y'know...yours) is based on it. Check again, are you sure you didn't just decide you'd get religious and picked one that was handy?

"Thank you for your interest in God. For Abraham, press 1. For Vishnu press 2. For Buddha, press 3. For the spirits of your ancestors, *BEEP*

You entered: YAHWEH. Is this correct? *BEEP*

For the groovy living Christ, press 1 and the Romans will be along to exterminate you shortly. For the trippy, cryptic risen Christ whose mission to reveal God's covenant to pay for the sins of mankind in fulfillment of prophecy will be explained in a series of hallucinatory letters by a soldier who never met him, press 2 . Otherwise, press #. *BEEP*"

That just means you're gullible. Miracles (magic) aren't a corollary of any rational experience, they're miraculous (magical). You don't get your palm read, win the lottery, and start "believing" crystals cure cancer.

I can understand if maybe you witnessed one first-hand, being open to the possibility miracles happen, but you'd have to be damn careful you didn't wind up like ry_goody by abandoning skepticism. Surely there's a bigger difference between you two than knowing what professed "beliefs" make people think you're a fruitcake.

It's circular reasoning. God isn't God without miracles, He's just physics. Miracles aren't miracles without God, they're coincidence. One or the other's existence requires an arbitrary leap of faith.

At the end of the day, you're parsing your experience with mythological symbolism -- an authority figure's explanation of metaphors, in modern Western (contrast, ancient Jewish) context, from a translation of an edited compilation of "historical" documents of dubious authorship that are factually inconsistent.

Perhaps I didn't explain well. What convinced me that God exists are the miracles that I've witnessed. Aside from that, there's miracles that have happened to my family and friends that I've heard about second-hand. God has shown me miracles, so I'm ready to accept the ones mentioned in The Bible.

I agree that maintaining a healthy sense of skepticism is a good thing. There's many positive things that have happened to me that are unusual but not enough for me to call them miraculous. On the other hand, I believe that everything I have is there because God gave it to me anyway, so whether it's miraculous or coincidence I'll thank Him either way.

edit: when I said that my faith isn't based on Christ's resurrection, I meant that I decided to follow Christ for a different reason, and it's by faith that I believe that the event happend
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Last edited by Ray Charles; 09-08-2007 at 08:04 PM..
Old 09-08-2007, 08:01 PM Ray Charles is offline  
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#53  

Vienge.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punisher View Post
It is amazing how many idiots say that.

this is what I'm saying.

I get so tired of people saying shit like this. "Boy the masses are fucking idiots, makes me so mad. Good thing I'M not one of them."

Says who fuckface? If the majority of people are morons then the odds say you are part of the majority, so learn some fucking humility and stop acting better than everyone else. If you actually ARE smarter than most that's great, credit your parent's genes for not making you a moron but until you do something proactive and positive with that intelligence like maybe help others you're just another isolated pile of wasted potential.

Admitting you know nothing is the first step to true understanding and all that.
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Old 09-08-2007, 09:14 PM Vienge. is offline  
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möbiustrip
 
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Originally Posted by Ray Charles View Post
Perhaps I didn't explain well. What convinced me that God exists are the miracles that I've witnessed. Aside from that, there's miracles that have happened to my family and friends that I've heard about second-hand.
Plural? You've gotta be willing to talk me through why you ruled out other explanations.

For one, most people don't get one bona fide miracle, let alone several;

Two, the biblical cause-effect relationship is that miracles are a reward for unwavering faith, not the impetus. I'm stuck at the idea God liked you enough to prove his existence a priori.

Quote:
edit: when I said that my faith isn't based on Christ's resurrection, I meant that I decided to follow Christ for a different reason, and it's by faith that I believe that the event happend
Yeah, but thanks to the wonders of blockquoting, you haven't answered: if you didn't believe in the resurrection first, then why Jesus?
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Old 09-08-2007, 10:01 PM möbiustrip is offline  
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mike27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Charles View Post
Perhaps I didn't explain well. What convinced me that God exists are the miracles that I've witnessed. Aside from that, there's miracles that have happened to my family and friends that I've heard about second-hand. God has shown me miracles, so I'm ready to accept the ones mentioned in The Bible.

I agree that maintaining a healthy sense of skepticism is a good thing. There's many positive things that have happened to me that are unusual but not enough for me to call them miraculous. On the other hand, I believe that everything I have is there because God gave it to me anyway, so whether it's miraculous or coincidence I'll thank Him either way.

edit: when I said that my faith isn't based on Christ's resurrection, I meant that I decided to follow Christ for a different reason, and it's by faith that I believe that the event happend

so basically you saw something that you couldn't explain, and rather than simply resign to the fact of your ignorance you delude yourself into thinking that there is a magical man in the sky that made it happen because he cares about our daily affairs

lawl
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Old 09-09-2007, 03:03 AM mike27 is offline  
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#56  

Ray Charles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by möbiustrip View Post
Plural? You've gotta be willing to talk me through why you ruled out other explanations.

For one, most people don't get one bona fide miracle, let alone several;

Two, the biblical cause-effect relationship is that miracles are a reward for unwavering faith, not the impetus. I'm stuck at the idea God liked you enough to prove his existence a priori.

Yeah, but thanks to the wonders of blockquoting, you haven't answered: if you didn't believe in the resurrection first, then why Jesus?

Here's what happened: I was with a church group. We prayed to God in Jesus Christ's name. Then miracles happen. The reason I think it was a bona fide miracle is that the chances of it happening are so small that I would say there's no way it happened by chance. When I looked for a cause there was only one thing that presented itself- which was that God had provided a miracle.

I'm sorry that I didn't answer your question well enough in my last post. God provided a miracle when I (and others) prayed to Him in the name of Jesus Christ. This is why I believe in God, and particularly why I believe in the Christian account of God. That's why I believe in Jesus. Then, my belief in the events that are recorded in The Bible follows from that. I hope that explains it well enough.
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Old 09-09-2007, 11:03 AM Ray Charles is offline  
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Ray Charles
 
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so basically you saw something that you couldn't explain, and rather than simply resign to the fact of your ignorance you delude yourself into thinking that there is a magical man in the sky that made it happen because he cares about our daily affairs

lawl

Jesus loves you
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Old 09-09-2007, 11:03 AM Ray Charles is offline  
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#58  

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Jesus loves you

great response you fucking dumbass
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Old 09-09-2007, 01:16 PM mike27 is offline  
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#59  

FSM
 
Okay Ray, why don't you FUCKING SPIT IT OUT: WHAT FUCKING 'MIRACLES' DID YOU AND YOUR FUCKING YOUTH GROUP WITNESS?

Spit it out, so that we too may believe in the horrible monster god yahweh, who's great book (the bible) tells us of laughable mythology (the first 11.5 chapters of genesis are straight from babylonian mythology), as well as barbarisms (many committed by yahweh himself, who killed over 2.5 million people in the OT), the god who sent his only son (even though he never mentioned a son in the OT) to earth to die for the sins of mankind (even though hell doesn't exist in the OT, it was invented in the 300 years after Malachi was written and before Jesus was born, if he really existed), all the while not fulfilling any of the OT prophecies.

And then YHWH, in his great power, allowed muhommad the false prophet to found islam, thus drawing over a billion believers away from Christ.

You are a fool, Ray. Sorry. I was too, before I turned 17 (I'm not saying you're a teenager). Just please listen to reason here- you are following a ridiculous mythology. It's because you're an ape who's too smart for it's own good, so you yearn for eternal life and paradise but can't have it. You and your family are worm food. Accept it, and help us kill the lie of religion.

Last edited by FSM; 09-09-2007 at 01:26 PM..
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