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ieyeasu
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
them make a sign that says that you plan on killing the president. see how protected that speech is.



Hitch up your britches, move that piece of grass to the other side of your mouth, and try actually answering the query, shitbird.
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Old 10-10-2007, 02:26 AM ieyeasu is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Originally Posted by ieyeasu View Post


Hitch up your britches, move that piece of grass to the other side of your mouth, and try actually answering the query, shitbird.

try firing up both braincells and realize I already did
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:15 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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If you're living in the United States why would you fly a flag other than the flag of the United States, individua states or territories?
Old 10-10-2007, 12:00 PM FM 2347 is offline  
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Escaped Gorilla Genitals
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakai View Post
Well, if you live in the southern half of the country, just go to an emergency room.
I do, and I have been.

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Originally Posted by Malakai View Post
How it works around me is, a mexican family (lets say a mom, dad, and 2 kids) arrive in my area from a boat or from texas. They go to the nearest hospital. Besides being taken care of as if they were an american citizen, our hospitals have spanish speaking social workers that will:

a) get the entire family on medicare immediately, all application processes are handled step by step by social workers, no english reading or writing skills necessary.
b) hook the family up with some section 8 (government funded) housing.
c) encouraged to enroll kids in local public schooling, no cost of course
Majority of illegal immigrants pay taxes, they contribute in the same way all low income people do.

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Originally Posted by Malakai View Post
Then, the construction and other labor jobs go to the section 8 area's and pick up loads of illegals for work. Their income is not taxed nor reported. Most (not all, but the very large majority) simply live on this way indefinitely.
Really? How do you know this? Everything I can find says the majority of illegal immigrants do report their earnings via individual tax income numbers, the center for immigration studies says at least two-thirds of illegal immigrants pay Medicare, Social Security and personal income taxes. In Federal taxes the average illegal immigrant family pays about $4,200 in federal taxes. They do create a fiscal deficit but it's actually much smaller than legal Americans in the same socio-economic class (low education, low income).
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscal.html
http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/1424.html


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Originally Posted by Malakai View Post
Well paying labor jobs with benefits (landscaping, roofing, and construction are the big ones here), which were easily available as few as 3-4 yeas ago, are now just gone. Mexicans dominate these area's, and local labor businesses can't even try to keep hiring americans because they cannot compete with companies paying illegals low wages and no benefits. Any new kids they have become citizens immediately through birthright. New bilingual education programs that cost lots of $$$ must be implemented to accommodate them, again at taxpayers expense.
Sounds like basic supply and demand, company finds a new way to deliver a lower cost product to the consumer, previous suppliers undercut by a cheaper source. Happens everytime there is a major wave of immigration to the US.


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Originally Posted by Malakai View Post
Struggling American citizens do not get anywhere near this kind of treatment. All of the section 8 developments in my area are 99% mexican. Going to a section 8 development is like going to mexico, I shit you not. There are 2 of these developments right around the corner from our house, both practically inside our neighborhood. For some people they live literally across the street, for free with full govt benefits, from borderline poor people struggling to pay their bills and skyrocketing house insurance costs. Now some cities want to give them drivers licenses too!
So why can't these struggling poor people apply for section 8 housing and government benefits?


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Originally Posted by Malakai View Post
You don't think this pisses people off? Knowing you are paying for someone to live off the system who did absolutely nothing to deserve it except illegally cross the border and move into your neighborhood? If they manage to get citizenship (amnesty, and many do despite public opinion and no immigration reform yet passed), they are entitled to social security in as little as 6 months!
They pay into the system like everyone else when they start working (as the vast majority do) and use less services and goods from the government than other low income families so I guess it pisses me off about as much as any poor person that uses government assistance.

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Originally Posted by Malakai View Post
It's not that they are mexican, or that they are here, it's that they are given far better treatment by the state than long standing american citizens. It's got nothing to do with racism like most of the presidential candidates like to claim. It's about being cut in line, and handing them our tax dollars as a reward for breaking the law.
I've not seen anything besides your personal anecdotes that would indicate to me that illegal immigrants are treated better by the State than most Americans.


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Originally Posted by Malakai View Post
Oh and while the illegals are getting the red carpet treatment, here in florida, there's a ton of DCF scandals about kids being taken away from low income american families over frivolous accusations that are sometimes taken completely at face value with zero basis in fact. In these types of cases, parents are forced to prove their innocence or prove their parenting ability through completing tasks assigned by a judge or DCF. Try doing this with a public defender. These plans are often simply impossible to pass.
Meanwhile their kids get raped, tortured, ect in foster care. Local media ignores the problem, or downplays it severely. These are the same low income people watching the mexicans flourish in their own little taxpayer funded developments. DCF does almost no investigations into illegal families btw, their funding is based on activities involving citizens not illegals.
What the fuck does that have to do with illegal immigrants besides both groups being impoverished?
Old 10-10-2007, 12:45 PM Escaped Gorilla Genitals is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2347 View Post
If you're living in the United States why would you fly a flag other than the flag of the United States, individua states or territories?

...sarcasm?
Old 10-10-2007, 07:35 PM Gandalf is offline  
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I do, and I have been.

Majority of illegal immigrants pay taxes, they contribute in the same way all low income people do.

Really? How do you know this? Everything I can find says the majority of illegal immigrants do report their earnings via individual tax income numbers, the center for immigration studies says at least two-thirds of illegal immigrants pay Medicare, Social Security and personal income taxes. In Federal taxes the average illegal immigrant family pays about $4,200 in federal taxes. They do create a fiscal deficit but it's actually much smaller than legal Americans in the same socio-economic class (low education, low income).
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscal.html
http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/1424.html


Sounds like basic supply and demand, company finds a new way to deliver a lower cost product to the consumer, previous suppliers undercut by a cheaper source. Happens everytime there is a major wave of immigration to the US.


So why can't these struggling poor people apply for section 8 housing and government benefits?


They pay into the system like everyone else when they start working (as the vast majority do) and use less services and goods from the government than other low income families so I guess it pisses me off about as much as any poor person that uses government assistance.

I've not seen anything besides your personal anecdotes that would indicate to me that illegal immigrants are treated better by the State than most Americans.


What the fuck does that have to do with illegal immigrants besides both groups being impoverished?

No offense but your getting your facts from government sponsored websites and studies and data. I live here and have watched my community degenerate severely over the last few years. People that left here for a few years come back and are shocked all the time.

This is the same shit the republican candidates, media, and govt. officials have been doing since these problems started getting bad. When people complain about the rapidly declining economic situations and other problems like immigration, you guys happily cite your figures and numbers and insist everything is fine. The people living in these situations are the experts not the numerical analysts working in their offices figuring out how to report things like immigration costs and inflation in the best possible light for the government's policies.

We already know the governments claim of a 2% inflation rate is complete fantasy, and the war in Iraq is NOT going well and violence is not being curbed in any meaningful way. Why should we continue to believe any of their claims and studies? The same goes for these Gallup polls that the media unendingly cites in every Ron Paul coverage they ever have. Ron can win over half the state straw polls held in the country and never get a single mainstream media mention about it, but these elusive landline telephone polls are treated as gospel by the media and touted multiple times a day.

Hell the Bush administration has been insisting any plans for the NAU, NAFTA Superhighway, and Amero currency are fantasy yet more and more info keeps seeping out indicating otherwise. See my other thread here in the Pit. Honestly I can't imagine how naive you must be to continue to believe everything your told after being lied to so much these last few years. The reasons we were told for the Iraq war in the first place were also baseless.

Last edited by Malakai; 10-11-2007 at 12:38 AM..
Old 10-11-2007, 12:31 AM Malakai is offline  
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#81  

TheMorlock
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When did this become the monty python skit thread?
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Old 10-11-2007, 02:46 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathlete View Post
Actually, iirc, national flags are supposed to be flown at the same height with the American flag always farthest to the left or right.

And when you are in America and yet choose to fly another flag over ours, you know exactly what message you are sending.

I am absolutely flabbergasted that some people cannot see the disrespect this act represents. Has the apathy of the american citizen truly become so great?

its a fucking flag

get the fuck over yourselves
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Old 10-11-2007, 11:19 AM Bukkakeboy is offline  
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cromicus
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Quote:
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Actually, iirc, national flags are supposed to be flown at the same height with the American flag always farthest to the left or right.
Says who? Who has the right to tell you what to do with your flags?

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Originally Posted by mathlete View Post
That could be. The problem they fail to acknowledge though is that even if they don't appreciate the symbolism of the act, the people doing it do. And that is what is upsetting - their intent.
And? You have no right not to be upset. I can make you upset all I want, what exactly do you hope to do about it?
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Old 10-11-2007, 11:23 AM cromicus is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakai View Post
Well, if you live in the southern half of the country, just go to an emergency room.

How it works around me is, a mexican family (lets say a mom, dad, and 2 kids) arrive in my area from a boat or from texas. They go to the nearest hospital. Besides being taken care of as if they were an american citizen, our hospitals have spanish speaking social workers that will:

a) get the entire family on medicare immediately, all application processes are handled step by step by social workers, no english reading or writing skills necessary.
b) hook the family up with some section 8 (government funded) housing.
c) encouraged to enroll kids in local public schooling, no cost of course

Then, the construction and other labor jobs go to the section 8 area's and pick up loads of illegals for work. Their income is not taxed nor reported. Most (not all, but the very large majority) simply live on this way indefinitely.
Well paying labor jobs with benefits (landscaping, roofing, and construction are the big ones here), which were easily available as few as 3-4 yeas ago, are now just gone. Mexicans dominate these area's, and local labor businesses can't even try to keep hiring americans because they cannot compete with companies paying illegals low wages and no benefits. Any new kids they have become citizens immediately through birthright. New bilingual education programs that cost lots of $$$ must be implemented to accommodate them, again at taxpayers expense.


Struggling American citizens do not get anywhere near this kind of treatment. All of the section 8 developments in my area are 99% mexican. Going to a section 8 development is like going to mexico, I shit you not. There are 2 of these developments right around the corner from our house, both practically inside our neighborhood. For some people they live literally across the street, for free with full govt benefits, from borderline poor people struggling to pay their bills and skyrocketing house insurance costs. Now some cities want to give them drivers licenses too!

You don't think this pisses people off? Knowing you are paying for someone to live off the system who did absolutely nothing to deserve it except illegally cross the border and move into your neighborhood? If they manage to get citizenship (amnesty, and many do despite public opinion and no immigration reform yet passed), they are entitled to social security in as little as 6 months!

It's not that they are mexican, or that they are here, it's that they are given far better treatment by the state than long standing american citizens. It's got nothing to do with racism like most of the presidential candidates like to claim. It's about being cut in line, and handing them our tax dollars as a reward for breaking the law.


Oh and while the illegals are getting the red carpet treatment, here in florida, there's a ton of DCF scandals about kids being taken away from citizens over frivolous accusations that are sometimes taken completely at face value with zero basis in fact. In these types of cases, parents are forced to prove their innocence or prove their parenting ability through completing tasks assigned by a judge or DCF. These plans are often simply impossible to pass.
Meanwhile their kids get raped, tortured, ect in foster care. Local media ignores the problem, or downplays it severely.

I'm sorry but I find most of this very hard to believe. How would an illegal alien even qualify for medicare? Illegals with no path to citizenship are not collecting SS benefits in six months. That is nonsense. Illegal aliens, even if the dreaded immigration reform had passed, would be about a decade from citizenship and another decade away from collecting SS retirement benefits. I highly doubt they would be eligible for section 8 as well and even if they were IT IS NOT FREE. That's not even how that works. Not for anyone.

And what wonderful "full govt benefits" are these people collecting? Food stamps so they don't starve? Emergency Care so they don't die? And are those Federal Benefits or something your state has enacted on its own?

And if you are poor and barely making it by then you aren't likely paying much in taxes. And I'm sorry but your individual tax dollars are not likely being spent on anyone but you because they likely don't cover any more costs than you incur on your own. In fact, if you are a poor American then the government already likely spends more on you than they take in from you. But again, it seems highly unlikely that illegals aliens would be able to get government services that they are ineligible for and which don't seem to exist anywhere for anyone.

And so what is the grand solution to all of this? Aren't you supporting Ron Paul and/or have a hard line libertarian stance? Isn't that position also to cut off benefits to everyone, including Americans? And once we cut everyone off from all possible assistance then everything will magically get better because the invisible hand of the market will save us all? That same market which you complain would rather hire illegal aliens so that it can pay them less... That market which would likely be even less regulated under a Ron Paul / Libertarian...

Why is that a better solution than better benefits for Americans like universal health care for everyone so we can stop denying essential services to American citizens?



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Originally Posted by Free_Willy View Post
+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.



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Old 10-11-2007, 01:08 PM pyramid is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cromicus View Post
Says who? Who has the right to tell you what to do with your flags?


And? You have no right not to be upset. I can make you upset all I want, what exactly do you hope to do about it?

the government of the nation you live in has the right to tell you what you do with your flags...you know, just like they have the right to create and enforce laws

flying another country's flag above the united states flag, while living in the united states, shows support for that other country over your own, which of course begs the question...why are you here and back in the day would've been pretty akin to treason
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Old 10-11-2007, 01:37 PM Xcric is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bukkakeboy View Post
its a fucking flag

get the fuck over yourselves

Scroll up and read my post.
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Old 10-11-2007, 01:40 PM Zangmonkey is offline  
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Originally Posted by Xcric View Post
the government of the nation you live in has the right to tell you what you do with your flags...you know, just like they have the right to create and enforce laws

flying another country's flag above the united states flag, while living in the united states, shows support for that other country over your own, which of course begs the question...why are you here and back in the day would've been pretty akin to treason

See: First Amendment right to freedom of speech. If you are allowed to burn a flag as a form of protected speech then hanging or arranging a flag as a form of speech or protest would also seem to be protected. Flying a flag incorrectly is not treasonous, it's at best a misdemeanor.

Seriously people, grow up. They guy was a US Citizen who flew the Mexican flag and the guy didn't even realize it was incorrect or illegal and it may not have even been so since it may very well be a protected form of speech to display a flag in any manner you so choose.
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Old 10-11-2007, 01:48 PM pyramid is offline  
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Originally Posted by Zangmonkey View Post
Scroll up and read my post.
Where the hell do you get the idea that illegal immigrants are protesting for Mexican sovereignty of US cities? Were they semaphoring that with their Mexican and American flags? I must have missed it.

"Please let me stay and work legally." is not the same thing as "I fucking own you.".
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Old 10-11-2007, 01:54 PM pyramid is offline  
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Quote:
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Where the hell do you get the idea that illegal immigrants are protesting for Mexican sovereignty of US cities? Were they semaphoring that with their Mexican and American flags? I must have missed it.

"Please let me stay and work legally." is not the same thing as "I fucking own you.".

I have no problem with them staying and working legally.

But hoisting your flag above ours is a very obvious message, don't feed me a line about how that's not understood.

Every nation with a flag understands what flying the flag means.
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