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TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nubz View Post
I don't know shit about guns or filters. But I will say this, sewing machine oil is just strait light weight base oil, it doesnt have any acidic or basic components like motor oil. And thats a good thing for the long life of machined parts.

You fucked up. You are supposed to say that I have no idea what I am talking about. 5 more people that know less than you are supposed to rally behind you and call me an idiot.
Certain people are supposed to log the tread as another Morlock does not know anything while pretending he knows about formation of new galaxies which I have never talked about

Change my wording in posts about what I said and go home satisified that my cum is not dripping off their lips and its just icing from a donut.
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Old 07-14-2012, 10:04 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Ezekial
 
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What is your opinion on running the oil which is recommended by the owners manual? In general, any vehicle manufacture exceptions?

When should a person deviate from the recommended oil?

Feedback on SAE 30 vs. 10w30, outside of improved cold startup for 10w30?


I have seen people think they know better than a manufacturer, heck I most likely did when I was younger as well. Personally I have just stuck with OEM oil & recommended weight since I have started driving (except for the case where I ran 10w30 vs. 5w30 after I rebuilt an engine, Ford 5.8. I broke it in with SAE 30).
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Old 07-14-2012, 11:11 PM Ezekial is offline  
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Manik
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Thanks for the info on sewing machine oil.
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Old 07-14-2012, 11:22 PM Manik is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezekial View Post
What is your opinion on running the oil which is recommended by the owners manual? In general, any vehicle manufacture exceptions?

When should a person deviate from the recommended oil?

Feedback on SAE 30 vs. 10w30, outside of improved cold startup for 10w30?


I have seen people think they know better than a manufacturer, heck I most likely did when I was younger as well. Personally I have just stuck with OEM oil & recommended weight since I have started driving (except for the case where I ran 10w30 vs. 5w30 after I rebuilt an engine, Ford 5.8. I broke it in with SAE 30).

Ignore manufactures spec when the warranty runs out. Otherwise you may be right technicaly but wrong legally if the engine fails. Judges are not gearheads
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Old 07-14-2012, 11:35 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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#34  

nubz
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezekial View Post
What is your opinion on running the oil which is recommended by the owners manual? In general, any vehicle manufacture exceptions?

When should a person deviate from the recommended oil?

Feedback on SAE 30 vs. 10w30, outside of improved cold startup for 10w30?


I have seen people think they know better than a manufacturer, heck I most likely did when I was younger as well. Personally I have just stuck with OEM oil & recommended weight since I have started driving (except for the case where I ran 10w30 vs. 5w30 after I rebuilt an engine, Ford 5.8. I broke it in with SAE 30).

The speced oil for you vehicle is based on things like bearing space, pressure and oil flow requirements.
i.e. a car spec for 10-30 running 20-50 is going to quickly shear the oil lube properties down. Especially when running a a wider vis range oil than speced.
Multi Viscosity oil uses a viscosity index improver to extend the temp range of stable viscosity (10w30 doesnt change to 10w when its cold, it just keep its viscosity as low as what a sae 10 would have at those temps). The VI improver is make from polystyrene type polymers, these are long chain polymers that are broken down quite badly from shear forces removing their effect. Whats even worse is that at low temps you get higher pressure in the heavier oil causing even more shearing.
On the other side using a lower vis oil wouldnt shear like a high vis oil, but as the temps drop the viscosity wont drop to compensate for the metal shrinkage and the resulting expansion of bearing gaps. This will leave the bearing surface starved of oil.

as far as single grade oil goes, if you keep it at a constant temp, yeah NP. But the startup temps even in places like CA and FL are lower than what multi viscosity oils are specifically designed to compensate for. Single grade oil is still a thin base oil with VI improver added to bring the viscosity into range, but its viscosity stability isnt tested and can range quite a bit from batch to batch. Also, single grade oils are usually Non-Detergent, and arent tested for wear additives at all. They might have some in there that were left over in the blending tank, they might not.

The most important #'s for cold weather isnt really the viscosity anyways, its the pour point and the MRV. Pour Point is simple the lowest temp that oil flow enough to pour and MRV is the amount of force that and oil can be sucked into a tube at low temps without sucking air from lack of flow. SN grade requires a pour point of -35 to -40C IIRC and a MRV of about 30k at -30C.

(Im tired the temps for MRV and PP might me 5c off)


edit: I just wanted to add that if you ever buy good quality gear oil you will notice that its alot thinner than the cheap stuff. Its an example of viscosity stability at temp ranges. The good stuff doesnt thin out as much when it heats up, but the cheap shit. We have to make it heavy so when it gets hot is thins out to where its supposed to be.
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Last edited by nubz; 07-15-2012 at 12:14 AM..
Old 07-15-2012, 12:00 AM nubz is offline  
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#35  

nubz
 
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Thanks for the info on sewing machine oil.

3-in-1 oil is just plain base oil too. BTW

I got a pint of 3cst PAO oil that was left over from testing, its
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Old 07-15-2012, 12:11 AM nubz is offline  
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#36  

nubz
 
Quote:
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You fucked up. You are supposed to say that I have no idea what I am talking about. 5 more people that know less than you are supposed to rally behind you and call me an idiot.
Certain people are supposed to log the tread as another Morlock does not know anything while pretending he knows about formation of new galaxies which I have never talked about

Change my wording in posts about what I said and go home satisified that my cum is not dripping off their lips and its just icing from a donut.

STFU + 7k
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1997 Geo- Three Cylinders of Fury, 5 Gears of slow (R.I.P)
wwilliam54 is gona dupe4lyfe
Old 07-15-2012, 12:17 AM nubz is offline  
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#37  

TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nubz View Post
STFU + 7k

Thats better.

Can I interest you is some smart liquids for lifetime breaking solution? No break pads needed
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Old 07-15-2012, 12:49 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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#38  

[H]ard|On
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nubz View Post
The speced oil for you vehicle is based on things like bearing space, pressure and oil flow requirements.
i.e. a car spec for 10-30 running 20-50 is going to quickly shear the oil lube properties down. Especially when running a a wider vis range oil than speced.
Multi Viscosity oil uses a viscosity index improver to extend the temp range of stable viscosity (10w30 doesnt change to 10w when its cold, it just keep its viscosity as low as what a sae 10 would have at those temps). The VI improver is make from polystyrene type polymers, these are long chain polymers that are broken down quite badly from shear forces removing their effect. Whats even worse is that at low temps you get higher pressure in the heavier oil causing even more shearing.
On the other side using a lower vis oil wouldnt shear like a high vis oil, but as the temps drop the viscosity wont drop to compensate for the metal shrinkage and the resulting expansion of bearing gaps. This will leave the bearing surface starved of oil.

as far as single grade oil goes, if you keep it at a constant temp, yeah NP. But the startup temps even in places like CA and FL are lower than what multi viscosity oils are specifically designed to compensate for. Single grade oil is still a thin base oil with VI improver added to bring the viscosity into range, but its viscosity stability isnt tested and can range quite a bit from batch to batch. Also, single grade oils are usually Non-Detergent, and arent tested for wear additives at all. They might have some in there that were left over in the blending tank, they might not.

The most important #'s for cold weather isnt really the viscosity anyways, its the pour point and the MRV. Pour Point is simple the lowest temp that oil flow enough to pour and MRV is the amount of force that and oil can be sucked into a tube at low temps without sucking air from lack of flow. SN grade requires a pour point of -35 to -40C IIRC and a MRV of about 30k at -30C.

(Im tired the temps for MRV and PP might me 5c off)


edit: I just wanted to add that if you ever buy good quality gear oil you will notice that its alot thinner than the cheap stuff. Its an example of viscosity stability at temp ranges. The good stuff doesnt thin out as much when it heats up, but the cheap shit. We have to make it heavy so when it gets hot is thins out to where its supposed to be.


This is all news to me, you're saying thicker stuff shears easier?

Also are you saying it's better to run thinner stuff in hot weather? Sorry if i totally misunderstood.
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Old 07-15-2012, 01:11 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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#39  

TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post
This is all news to me, you're saying thicker stuff shears easier?

Also are you saying it's better to run thinner stuff in hot weather? Sorry if i totally misunderstood.

for most lubricants viscosity drops as temps rise which is why you wand the first number to be low for cold environments. 20w 30 for upstate NY 10 w 30 for canada

modern lubes have advanced bingham plastic properties and have an enhanced sheer rate

synthetics are designed to adhere to a metallic wall and have a comb sheer effect with the lubricant on the opposite surface.

I used to understand it better 20 years ago so the above shit is an approximation.
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Old 07-15-2012, 01:43 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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#40  

nubz
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post
This is all news to me, you're saying thicker stuff shears easier?

Also are you saying it's better to run thinner stuff in hot weather? Sorry if i totally misunderstood.

pressure and resistance to flow increases shear. Thicker oil runs at a higher pressure and undergoes alot more forces as its squeezed around in a spaced speced for lighter oil
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Old 07-15-2012, 01:59 AM nubz is offline  
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#41  

nubz
 
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Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
for most lubricants viscosity drops as temps rise which is why you wand the first number to be low for cold environments. 20w 30 for upstate NY 10 w 30 for canada

modern lubes have advanced bingham plastic properties and have an enhanced sheer rate

synthetics are designed to adhere to a metallic wall and have a comb sheer effect with the lubricant on the opposite surface.

I used to understand it better 20 years ago so the above shit is an approximation.

yeah 20 years sounds right
PAO's which are the best synthetic base oils have incredible viscosity stability over temp ranges. This allows you to use much less VI improver, which is the most shear prone part of oil anyways. This and their low volatility as well their resistance to many chemical reaction make them light years better than the ester and group III synthetic base oils you are thinking of.
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Old 07-15-2012, 02:06 AM nubz is offline  
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#42  

TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nubz View Post
yeah 20 years sounds right
PAO's which are the best synthetic base oils have incredible viscosity stability over temp ranges. This allows you to use much less VI improver, which is the most shear prone part of oil anyways. This and their low volatility as well their resistance to many chemical reaction make them light years better than the ester and group III synthetic base oils you are thinking of.

Thats the kindest stfu you geezer post I have even seen.
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Old 07-15-2012, 02:13 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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#43  

[H]ard|On
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I was amazed how quickly oil loses viscosity even in a manual transmission for example.

On the vette boards "ZFDoc" has done tests to figure out what oil is best for the ZF 6 speed. (The guy basically rebuilds those things with his eyes closed) His recommendation was the BMW 10w60 which is factory fill on M3/M5.

Anyway viscosity tests showed that it dropped about 1% every 1000 miles or so. His recommendation was about 35k on each change tops where the oil became equivalent to BMWs 5w30. I was shocked that just simply by being inside some cogs that can happen, without any explosions and gasoline coming into play.
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Old 07-15-2012, 03:06 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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#44  

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I run redline 10w40 in my track car (advertised as group V ester synth base oils)

What kind of oil temp do you think it acceptable (5w40 is the standard prescribed oil viscosity) - basically it will hit 120 to 125 C or so...do these temps warrant changing the oil after every track day or should it hold up OK for a couple? Average trackday is probably around 100 miles of full throttle driving. Engine is turbocharged and makes about 80hp per hole. But the bearings have a rep for holding up well.
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Old 07-15-2012, 04:15 AM JCviggen is offline  
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