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That German Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ry_goody View Post
no man It's like shining a laser pointer through a split mirror. While yes the beam splits and produces two different dots, both dots are in actuality the same dot.

Hell, after the split mirror you might even route one dot through a filter to produce a circle, and another dot through a filter to make a square. But even then, the circle and square are both the same dot.
No, they just share an origin, just as the boxed-in-half god would. They would only be the same dot (or god) if an event occurring to one entity would produce the same effects on both. The laser beam example of yours actually works quite well: While both daughter beams are clearly descended from the mother beam, influencing one will have no effect on the other. The only way to influence the daughter beams symmetrically is to influence the mother, once they have split this becomes impossible.

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This is in fact the kind of universe we live in. Your not actually seeing objects, your not actually seeing physical reality. Your eyes are absorbing photons reflected off the energy condensed to what is collectively deemed 'physical'. Atoms do not construct your reality, atoms are not what you comprehend, it's all light and photons that have constructed your vision and comprehension of reality.
With you so far...
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And all light is merely a refraction of one bright infinite light placed in the center of your vision, perceived to be infinitely away. Through the psychic interplay of what is agreed upon 'real' in your circle of trusted monkeys, your brain then recognizes certain energetic plays as pertinent to the survival of your collective energy and will route that one infinite light, by a series of seemingly atomic refractions, to construct your vision and cause you to believe your existing in physical reality. If you forget the need for your body, the need for your self, the need for earth, the need for the universe, your brain will stop refracting the one light source through whatever concoction you have tied your brain up to believe reality to be. Then you will see it. Just plain white light, with a pleasantly loud buzzing sound. The one light source that illuminates your vision, not yet abstracted into the prismatic array of 'objects' you believe to be physical reality.
Ah, the theory of perceptual uncertainty. 'Tis an interesting one, but ultimately flawed, as I will demonstrate: The theory of perceptual uncertainty likes to be taken to extremes; Doing so results in the belief that perception may differ so much between entities that a subjective truth is impossible to define, as multiple entities will perceive the same reality in significantly different (if not diametrically opposed) ways.

Thus, this theory cannot be used as a base upon which to build a reality construct, since it strips said construct of all validity by default.
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Which if you consider that absurd. For a moment think. All of the earth and this solar system is merely an abstracted alteration of the energy from a singular source, the sun. What I said is not absurd, it is in fact the simple truth of the matter agreed upon by every culture in existence, even atheists (or do one of you want to argue we will continue to exist without the sun? ). All I describe is how the brain carries around a psychically emulated concept of the sun in order to produce what you call 'vision'.
I can in fact argue how humanity can exist for centuries, maybe millennia, without the sun. The sun was and is part of the long chain of events that precipitated humanity, but it is technically not a requirement for the continuation of this chain in such a way that allows humanity to survive for a significant amount of time. You can actually express the solar system mathematically in such a way that is is actually all made up of energy that was at some point part of the sun (or rather the gas cloud from which it formed), but doing so would be impractical at best.

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You get enough monkeys in a group collectively believing the single light source is a certain deitic form and there brains will quite literally take this light source and refract it through synapses of their brain to produce a true sight of jesus, Krisna or whatever deity. But it's all construct of the same thing. And while yes it is Jesus, Krisna, Muhamed all seperate, it isn't, as it is all constructs of the very essence of pure light, otherwise you would not see it, and light is singular source of all. Even if it contorts itself to deitic form, sight of the earth, or parallel dimensions, it's still all a construct from the same source.
Sorry, that last thing is just drivel.
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Old 04-12-2008, 12:33 PM That German Guy is offline  
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Originally Posted by AncientMarinade View Post
but then they would be agnostics...

but yeah, i know what you mean.

yeah but apparently agnostic falls into the classification of atheist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weak_and_strong_atheism

I don't really buy into it myself but it seems most atheists I know follow that same train of thought so I guess it's valid
Old 04-12-2008, 01:57 PM SemperFly is offline  
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ry_goody
 
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Originally Posted by AncientMarinade View Post
why the hell are you posting in here

you claim that atheism is "easy" to believe in, that "it caught on because it's easier to believe in"...
could you explain to me why it's easier to believe in?

(most) atheists: believes 100% there is no God, believes that there is no higher power governing things/ruling our lives/directing our lives/created us...basically we are merely small creatures populating 1/1^gazillion of the universe, and that when we die there is no reward and no heaven/hell

take a look at prayer or final rights or blessing a house. people do it because it makes them feel better, more at peace, more comfortable.

having a religion, if anything, is easier.
mind you: i'm not agreeing at all with your dumbfuck reasoning for why atheists are atheists...cause i am the "exception to your dumbfuck law", but i want to know why you think it's easier

if you go at this with Christian conception in your mind and feel like your going against Christianity, you will always win because Christianity in general is kind of retarded. Even in it's completely unaltered pure state. Although I do have much respect for Christ.

If you conversely go at this from something like a tantric or shamanistic perspective. Dying is basically when you enter your light body, an energy vehicle of sorts, to traverse the cosmos and be able to 'find' heaven (these were the spiritual concept that movie The Fountain was illustrating). You spend your living time on earth basically doing out of body work in the astral plane to in part familiarize yourself with the body and energy structures after death, then also, to further develop them with the resources available to you now. The Christian belief is also built on top of this, but how Christianity is set up is, Christ will basically, at the immediate time of death, come to you, show you all this stuff dealing with the afterlife and step you through it. So then, you don't have to do any of the extensive spiritual work people of other doctrines have done. Even if that was completely true, I still don't think I'd want to be a complete sculpted disciple of Christ.

But I dunno man. Telling people what happens when you die is an aging style I don't wish to participate in anymore. If you really want to know, we do have the technology these days, LSD, DMT. Take enough to get you completely out of your body and this dimension and then you can look for yourself. I will tell you though, you can maintain conscious will even without your body to hold an energetic form. What this means exactly is, you will completely disintegrate with your body if you don't develop this out of body will. When you say you just die when you die, I don't disagree, because obviously you will. I think most Christians will to, I have yet to run into Christ out there myself. Buddhists seem to have a good chance though.
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Old 04-12-2008, 04:27 PM ry_goody is offline  
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Originally Posted by That German Guy View Post
No, they just share an origin, just as the boxed-in-half god would. They would only be the same dot (or god) if an event occurring to one entity would produce the same effects on both. The laser beam example of yours actually works quite well: While both daughter beams are clearly descended from the mother beam, influencing one will have no effect on the other. The only way to influence the daughter beams symmetrically is to influence the mother, once they have split this becomes impossible.

You miss the point. My example was not to argue that any manifestation of the source of light is God. But in terms of pursuing God, you don't look to the separateness of deities, you look to the commonality between them. That is the unadulterated version of God, the real God. Atheists seem to think that they are pulling up the absurdity of the concept of a single source of energy by telling various deitic myths of cultures. "LOLZ man in the sky" Well obviously they are absurd when you do that, because it is not the sperateness, the differences, of the myths that aim towards what God is, it's the single collective source of them all that aims towards it, the commonalities between them.

If you can make the connection between the Christian "LOLZ MAN IN THE SKY" and then the Buddhist resonating tone Aum and the tantric Merkaba... then your getting close. Each one is abstractly describing the same thing.
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Old 04-12-2008, 04:41 PM ry_goody is offline  
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Again, hey guys it's cool and trendy to be agnostic or atheist, fucking tool

I thought being agnostic/atheist was based on rational thought and the consideration that there is absolutely no evidence of any kind that supports any of the thousands of religious claims made by hundreds of different religions since the start of human history.

Basing an opinion on claims based on no factual evidence, isn't that like...ignorance or something, woah, wait what? Oh no, I'm trendy, I wouldn't know what I'm talking about

Honestly, you make yourself look like a massive fucking douche nozzle on here. But, I guess if that's your intent, you're doing a marvelous job.

lulz, I are like so immature


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Old 04-12-2008, 08:24 PM G-Snake is offline  
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Thread start- I feel that your right on point
Sometimes I wonder what if were in a never ending cycle. Ex. what if the earth itself is a cell of a cell of a cell of a cell etc.... and we make up another human being or plant with other universes? and then it goes on for ever backwards and forever forwards. I know it sounds completely ridiculous but yeah

Also at times i just think what the fuck?! how do i live, how can i comprehend that i'm in this place, how can i move, how do i have the ability to think. what will happen when i die? will it be the same as if before i took my first breath? will i have no feeling no pain no pleasure no excitment no fun? will i be seeing black? will i be in heaven? hell? a place full of white never ending fog? or will i be reborn and forget about my other life? will I be reborn as an animal or a plant? will I become god himself?

WHAT IF I am god? what if all this I'm doing is for my entertainment? How do i really know that this isn't just all my imagination? How do I know that you ARE really one like me? What if I created YOU. What if I created sleep and happiness but i don't even know it? What if once i die i'll just roam and make another universe sub-consciously and provide life their and a history then drop myself down into the new world to have another entertaining period.?


God is a figure of our imagination, the first humans on the earth when they saw their friend get eaten by a lion and he wasn't able to breath or talk anymore. They thought to themselves? "oh fuck, if that happened to me i wouldn't be breathing and talking right now, that mother fucker is dead. But where did he go and what was his purpose on Earth... so this lead to the belief in a god.

****In the short story, Religion is the best told LIE*****
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Old 04-12-2008, 09:50 PM H20indeed is offline  
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Wait, people still believe in god? Weird.

I think I've met maybe 6 people in the past few years that actually truly believe in a religion and practice it (one was Muslim). This includes the crazies that roam the NYC transit system.
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Old 04-12-2008, 10:04 PM deltabourne is offline  
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ry_goody
 
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Originally Posted by deltabourne View Post
Wait, people still believe in god? Weird.

I think I've met maybe 6 people in the past few years that actually truly believe in a religion and practice it (one was Muslim). This includes the crazies that roam the NYC transit system.

You say this.
But conversely I think, "Wait, people still believe in western psychology?"

"wHAT, you actually think you have evidence of your brain fantasies? Your worse than the scientologists"
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Old 04-12-2008, 11:10 PM ry_goody is offline  
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Originally Posted by ry_goody View Post
You say this.
But conversely I think, "Wait, people still believe in western psychology?"

which is why you'll never get the professional help you so desperately need
Old 04-12-2008, 11:14 PM SemperFly is offline  
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ry_goody
 
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Originally Posted by H20indeed View Post
Thread start- I feel that your right on point
Sometimes I wonder what if were in a never ending cycle. Ex. what if the earth itself is a cell of a cell of a cell of a cell etc.... and we make up another human being or plant with other universes? and then it goes on for ever backwards and forever forwards. I know it sounds completely ridiculous but yeah

Also at times i just think what the fuck?! how do i live, how can i comprehend that i'm in this place, how can i move, how do i have the ability to think. what will happen when i die? will it be the same as if before i took my first breath? will i have no feeling no pain no pleasure no excitment no fun? will i be seeing black? will i be in heaven? hell? a place full of white never ending fog? or will i be reborn and forget about my other life? will I be reborn as an animal or a plant? will I become god himself?

WHAT IF I am god? what if all this I'm doing is for my entertainment? How do i really know that this isn't just all my imagination? How do I know that you ARE really one like me? What if I created YOU. What if I created sleep and happiness but i don't even know it? What if once i die i'll just roam and make another universe sub-consciously and provide life their and a history then drop myself down into the new world to have another entertaining period.?


God is a figure of our imagination, the first humans on the earth when they saw their friend get eaten by a lion and he wasn't able to breath or talk anymore. They thought to themselves? "oh fuck, if that happened to me i wouldn't be breathing and talking right now, that mother fucker is dead. But where did he go and what was his purpose on Earth... so this lead to the belief in a god.

****In the short story, Religion is the best told LIE*****

If you believe in evolution and you believe in the big bang then you must also believe we evolved from the big bang. That we are in essence nothing more than incredibly complexified big bangs walking around. Constantly still exploding, still expanding.

By this context, you do hold in you the very singular source of all energy of creation, to be utilized at your will. All you must do is learn the dynamics it must operate through in order to manifest reality in the collective monkey existence.
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Old 04-12-2008, 11:17 PM ry_goody is offline  
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which is why you'll never get the professional help you so desperately need

Schizophrenia doesn't exist, some people just operate multi-dimensionally.
Besides. Whatever that schizophrenia was, Leary figured out the cure in the 60's
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Old 04-12-2008, 11:19 PM ry_goody is offline  
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I can honestly say that I don't.
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Old 04-13-2008, 01:05 AM cokezeroholic is offline  
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That German Guy
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Originally Posted by ry_goody View Post
You miss the point. My example was not to argue that any manifestation of the source of light is God. But in terms of pursuing God, you don't look to the separateness of deities, you look to the commonality between them. That is the unadulterated version of God, the real God. Atheists seem to think that they are pulling up the absurdity of the concept of a single source of energy by telling various deitic myths of cultures. "LOLZ man in the sky" Well obviously they are absurd when you do that, because it is not the sperateness, the differences, of the myths that aim towards what God is, it's the single collective source of them all that aims towards it, the commonalities between them.

If you can make the connection between the Christian "LOLZ MAN IN THE SKY" and then the Buddhist resonating tone Aum and the tantric Merkaba... then your getting close. Each one is abstractly describing the same thing.

I'm with you, in a way. I too think that any and all "gods" or other religious concepts are the results of the same thing. Only in my case, the thing is the human ability to believe without question coupled with suffering and imagination. If you revere the "single collective source", what is the use of that? It was the sudden expansion of the universe from a not-yet-definable state, nothing more. It is physics, it is science, it requires no belief, only gathering and examination of evidence.

Bottom line: Your data that is not only outside of current scientific knowledge but actively opposes most of it. The amount of proof that establishes the current status of science is gigantic, while the amount of "proof" for your thaory is, well... you. Sorry, you lose that one.
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Old 04-13-2008, 02:45 AM That German Guy is offline  
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It's kind of funny science's answer so far is that everything was made by stupid tiny things that usually only have one purpose, that somehow bond with other tiny stupid things, and that an idea of everything created by any real intelligence by our standards is ridiculous.

I'm agnostic and think science may very well be right, but when you look at what it's really implying then it's easy to see why people believe in a higher power. None of us know though and some stupid genmay thread isn't going to clear anything up. Seriously though bible believers grow up, santa is dead.
Old 04-13-2008, 05:26 AM crumbaker is offline  
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That German Guy
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It's kind of funny science's answer so far is that everything was made by stupid tiny things that usually only have one purpose, that somehow bond with other tiny stupid things, and that an idea of everything created by any real intelligence by our standards is ridiculous.

I'm agnostic and think science may very well be right, but when you look at what it's really implying then it's easy to see why people believe in a higher power. None of us know though and some stupid genmay thread isn't going to clear anything up. Seriously though bible believers grow up, santa is dead.

I'd like to add something to your summary of the scientific position:

"That's what we know for now, but we're working on the rest."

Basically, science doesn't know everything. But we WILL give you a raincheck, and you are in fact encouraged to hold us to it.
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Old 04-13-2008, 05:54 AM That German Guy is offline  
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