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Trachei
 
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Paulson and Bush will veto any bailout that blocks foreign investors!

This deserves it's own topic. edit://didn't mean Paulson could Veto, but he would tell Bush to veto it. You must watch the video to fully understand.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=873682522&play=1

Everyone should know the truth. Nothing is tinfoil at this point. This is a congressman.

Basically, China is allowed to sell ANYTHING to it's American Subsidiary on Monday and sell it to the Treasury on Tuesday. No restrictions. This goes for ANY foreign investor. You could be buying English mortgages, chinese mortgages, chinese credit cards, Irish credit cards. Chinese auto loans, etc. You name it, you're going to own it.

Note, this is VERY different from this sentence; American subsidiaries are able to sell to the Treasury assets they already hold. Basically, you are being blackmailed by the Chinese and every other US Treasury holder.


Supposed to help mainstreet.......yep...

How does this make J6P pay his mortgage again? The fundamental monetary cause of the entire problem.

Last edited by Trachei; 09-30-2008 at 08:50 PM..
Old 09-30-2008, 08:23 PM Trachei is offline  
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Gibonius
 
China is going to loan us money to buy Chinese debt
Old 09-30-2008, 08:30 PM Gibonius is offline  
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Trachei
 
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China is going to loan us money to buy Chinese debt

Right now their mortgages and other crap they hold aren't backed by the American people/government. After this they will be. See the difference?

Did you watch the video?
Old 09-30-2008, 08:32 PM Trachei is offline  
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BigFuzzyArchon
 
 
wow we are totally sucking China's cock.

China is also getting the oil from Iraq after they payed for the war.
Old 09-30-2008, 08:56 PM BigFuzzyArchon is offline  
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joemama
Watch Toomer burn those cowboys. How bout them cowboys?
 
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Keep in mind that if the American economy tanks, China will also lose it's largest consumer of the crap they manufacture...not to mention that an American crash would also depress all of their next largest consumer markets. There are cocks being sucked on all sides..
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Old 10-01-2008, 10:10 AM joemama is offline  
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BigFuzzyArchon
 
 
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Keep in mind that if the American economy tanks, China will also lose it's largest consumer of the crap they manufacture...not to mention that an American crash would also depress all of their next largest consumer markets. There are cocks being sucked on all sides..

It is fucked up for them to lie to us and say this is going to help out main street and not tell us the truth.

I am sure you have heard the democrats also want to raise the FDIC insurance to 250k. That isn't to protect american citizens, it may be a side effect, but the real reason is because the minimum amount needed to invest in hedge funds is 250k.

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
Old 10-01-2008, 10:15 AM BigFuzzyArchon is offline  
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JCviggen
 
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How does this make J6P pay his mortgage again? The fundamental monetary cause of the entire problem.

The fundamental cause is millions of Americans living above the standard they could afford. Giving out bad loans was fantastic to the economy for quite a while but nobody was complaining back then. It's very easy to put blame on Wall St. (and surely much of it is deserved) but everyone should consider their own part in this mess. You can blame politicians as well, but it's hard to get anywhere as a politician without promising more than you should. Hence the people always get politicians they deserve.

America's debt is causing huge losses and problems around the world, as we are now all living in a world economy. Foreign money has been flowing in rivers into the U.S. since god knows when. To solve the issues, measures need to be able to go cross-border, it's as simple as that. To restrict the bailout to a national level you might as well not do anything.

China incidentally holds mind boggling amounts of U.S. debt, so its not unreasonable to consider their position either.
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Old 10-01-2008, 10:36 AM JCviggen is offline  
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BigFuzzyArchon
 
 
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Originally Posted by JCviggen View Post
The fundamental cause is millions of Americans living above the standard they could afford. Giving out bad loans was fantastic to the economy for quite a while but nobody was complaining back then. It's very easy to put blame on Wall St. (and surely much of it is deserved) but everyone should consider their own part in this mess. You can blame politicians as well, but it's hard to get anywhere as a politician without promising more than you should. Hence the people always get politicians they deserve.

America's debt is causing huge losses and problems around the world, as we are now all living in a world economy. Foreign money has been flowing in rivers into the U.S. since god knows when. To solve the issues, measures need to be able to go cross-border, it's as simple as that. To restrict the bailout to a national level you might as well not do anything.

China incidentally holds mind boggling amounts of U.S. debt, so its not unreasonable to consider their position either.

you may be right, but that is NOT what we were told and NOT what congress was told. Bush went in front of the nation and said the bill needed to be passed or else it would cause a greater economic crisis and that this was going to help the average american.
Old 10-01-2008, 10:45 AM BigFuzzyArchon is offline  
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JCviggen
 
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Originally Posted by BigFuzzyArchon View Post
you may be right, but that is NOT what we were told and NOT what congress was told. Bush went in front of the nation and said the bill needed to be passed or else it would cause a greater economic crisis and that this was going to help the average american.

Well it should, if it avoids a worst case scenario meltdown. But you can't expect it to help everyone. Someone who simply can't pay for a house or whatever he bought isn't suddenly going to be out of trouble.

I think it's safe to say that if the plan works, it will save lots and lots of jobs in the US and around the world. Main street would feel an economic recession a lot harder than the guys making less millions than usual on Wall St. anyway.

"damned if you do, more damned if you don't" I think.
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Old 10-01-2008, 11:01 AM JCviggen is offline  
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Malakai
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCviggen View Post
The fundamental cause is millions of Americans living above the standard they could afford. Giving out bad loans was fantastic to the economy for quite a while but nobody was complaining back then. It's very easy to put blame on Wall St. (and surely much of it is deserved) but everyone should consider their own part in this mess. You can blame politicians as well, but it's hard to get anywhere as a politician without promising more than you should. Hence the people always get politicians they deserve.

America's debt is causing huge losses and problems around the world, as we are now all living in a world economy. Foreign money has been flowing in rivers into the U.S. since god knows when. To solve the issues, measures need to be able to go cross-border, it's as simple as that. To restrict the bailout to a national level you might as well not do anything.

China incidentally holds mind boggling amounts of U.S. debt, so its not unreasonable to consider their position either.

As one of the few who has never borrowed a penny from anyone but family for a few weeks, I can say this mess is not my fault.

But frankly blaming it on either main st or wall st is mostly incorrect. Both parties jumped on board the easy money train, but it's government and fed reserve policy (and the system itself) that causes the initial problems.

Low interest rates in a free market mean that the people have lots of savings, borrowing money is easy because there is lots of it available to borrow.

However central bank induced low interest rates simply means banks are loaning with extremely low % reserves, and the fed is creating massive amounts of new credit. Reserve limit is practially zero now, will actually be zero with new senate bailout bill. Fed said in the last week it's loaning about 50bn a day to banks to keep them afloat, vs 20-30bn a day just a few weeks ago.
If there was no magic credit machine and the interest rate was actually based on national savings, it would be insanely high. Considering estimated M3 increases probably volker like 20%. Also banks would *gasp* actually have to keep enough reserves on hand to handle customers withdrawls. I'm not sure I'm on board with the whole fractional reserve system in general (should banks really be able to do things with money that everyone else cannot?); but the central bank interest rate setting system is definitely broken and completely antithesis to real free market capitalism. You really can't have a free and self regulating market when interest rates are arbitrarily set.

Also remember, high interest rates suck for borrowers but are fantastic for savers. This is how the market is supposed to regulate itself and why the fed and gov just fucks it up. When there is lots of savings its more profitable to invest, when not much savings around its more profitable to save and loan your savings out. I say again all governments and central banks do is fuck up and distort the system, which leads to errors in the best way to distribute goods and money throughout society.

Hard to believe that such a simple thing as who controls and regulates the money affects pretty much every aspect of everyone on the planet's lives.

Last edited by Malakai; 10-01-2008 at 11:32 AM..
Old 10-01-2008, 11:26 AM Malakai is offline  
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