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TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teh scud View Post
What do deniers believe is the ultimate goal of the scientists that are supposedly lying about global warming?

What do warmists believe is the ultimate goal of the realists?
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:46 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama View Post
That's exactly what I'm trying to say...you use the word "denier" and lump anyone who questions climate alarmism in with people who have political/monetary agendas on the other side of the issue. You like to cherry pick the dumb people who just think the entire thing is hogwash (which I don't) and hold them up as the standard for the other side....just like anyone who doesn't agree with all your liberal views is a "racist teabagger" or some other ridiculous moniker. Lumping everyone together in one neat little group is much easier for your mind to deal with...right?

I guess I could ask you the same question...so basically you're saying that those 19 people who signed off on that article (which I doubt you even read) are liars and have something to gain personally?

I just use "deniers" as a convenient one word noun that you will understand.

I'm not calling anyone anything negative. I'm saying 99% of scientists disagree with their stance. by definition, they "deny" the scientific consensus.

who is trying to turn this debate into a name calling contest, me or you?
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:52 PM pyramid is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
What do warmists believe is the ultimate goal of the realists?

to allow the problem to go on unabated because it might interfere with their profits somehow.
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:54 PM pyramid is offline  
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to allow the problem to go on unabated because it might interfere with their profits somehow.

Stupid EPA, damn liberals trying to stop job creators!
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:55 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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FUCKING NIXON!!!1

damn liberal...
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:58 PM pyramid is offline  
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And thats EXACTLY how I feel about it......and I formed that opinion long before this article came out. I find the extreme deniers (those who have something to gain, or just blindly following a political agenda) just as deplorable as you do...but no less so than the extreme apocalypse prophets.

Also, how is this wrap-up "douchie"?

"Every candidate should support rational measures to protect and improve our environment, but it makes no sense at all to back expensive programs that divert resources from real needs and are based on alarming but untenable claims of "incontrovertible" evidence."

They phrase too much of it so that the politically/ideologically motivated deniers can run with it in irresponsible ways. Intentionally or not, it feeds into many of the stupid memes being pushed by people with no concern at all for scientific accuracy, just political victory.

There are plenty of legit points in there too (primarily: hysteria is bad, and we need to do more groundwork), but the net balance is a negative I think.
Old 02-02-2012, 12:33 AM Gibonius is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyramid View Post
to allow the problem to go on unabated because it might interfere with their profits somehow.

I dont make any profits from wanting real science done.
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Old 02-02-2012, 12:40 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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Hey! Why don't we do that small scale nuclear war thing to fix global warming? That's from your "real science" people. Does that solution suit you?
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Old 02-02-2012, 12:43 AM Jack's raging erection is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama View Post
And thats EXACTLY how I feel about it......and I formed that opinion long before this article came out. I find the extreme deniers (those who have something to gain, or just blindly following a political agenda) just as deplorable as you do...but no less so than the extreme apocalypse prophets.

..then you're not a denier and shouldn't take offense to my statement

I think we've been over this before. I don't really side with the apocalyptic side, either. My main motivation for wanting to pursue green technologies is that I think these technologies will help make electricity cheaper and more abundant. I think we're stifling technological innovation and progress by sticking with fossil fuels. Helping the environment is a nice benefit as well, though, and shouldn't be overlooked. We can't continue using fossil fuels forever, so I'd like for the world to get over them asap.

Last edited by teh scud; 02-02-2012 at 07:04 AM..
Old 02-02-2012, 06:54 AM teh scud is offline  
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joemama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teh scud View Post
..then you're not a denier and shouldn't take offense to my statement

I think we've been over this before. I don't really side with the apocalyptic side, either. My main motivation for wanting to pursue green technologies is that I think these technologies will help make electricity cheaper and more abundant. I think we're stifling technological innovation and progress by sticking with fossil fuels. Helping the environment is a nice benefit as well, though, and shouldn't be overlooked. We can't continue using fossil fuels forever, so I'd like for the world to get over them asap.
Make electricity more abundant..maybe, but cheaper won't happen for quite some time. The thing I find ironic is that a steadfast belief in man-made global warming usually goes hand in hand with championing for the poor and disadvantaged of the world. Who do you think would be hurt most if we jerked our knees and actually took meaningful action based on the doomsday prophets? Of course that is all dependent on getting developing nations to comply and feel the same sort of guilt that developed nations have. Or do we simply concentrate on ourselves while developing nations (along with Russia/China) carry on business as usual...while watching the economies of the U.S./EU regress?

I think the last paragraph of that article I linked says it best..and the key word is "rational"
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:54 AM joemama is online now  
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Baloneyflaps.
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Ah, and I remember when the media and scientitsts were telling us we were heading for an ice age.
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Old 02-02-2012, 08:02 AM Baloneyflaps. is offline  
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Ah, and I remember when the media and scientitsts were telling us we were heading for an ice age.

Media was all over that, but "scientists" never were. There was one big paper, hotly contested by the rest of the scientific community. It's all there in the literature, global cooling was never a widely held view.
Old 02-02-2012, 10:14 AM Gibonius is offline  
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Baloneyflaps.
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and now we're seeing the decline of scientists believing in the warming


oh well
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:37 AM Baloneyflaps. is offline  
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Quote:
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and now we're seeing the decline of scientists believing in the warming


oh well

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/21/sc...21climate.html
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:47 AM pyramid is offline  
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joemama
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That's not the real issue, but rather proving without a shadow of a doubt that all of that 1.8 degree increase the past 50 years is man-made. There is evidence that suggests the climate has changed much more rapidly in the past..the distant past that is. The thing is, it only takes one large volcanic eruption to make the entire human populations C02 output seem puny and weak by comparison. "Mother earth" isn't a living, breathing being...and doesn't really care if her skin is teeming with life or a barren wasteland.
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Old 02-02-2012, 01:14 PM joemama is online now  
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