General [M]ayhem

Go Back   General [M]ayhem > Real Time Sub-Forums > The Pit
Register Members List Mark Forums Read [M]erchandise Calendar

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Gibonius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baloneyflaps View Post
and now we're seeing the decline of scientists believing in the warming


oh well

We are? Says who? The Wall Street Journal?
Old 02-02-2012, 01:25 PM Gibonius is offline  
Reply With Quote
#2041  

Advertisement [Remove Advertisement]

Gibonius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama View Post
There is evidence that suggests the climate has changed much more rapidly in the past..the distant past that is.
The evidence also suggests that those rapid climate shifts caused huge extinctions.
Quote:
The thing is, it only takes one large volcanic eruption to make the entire human populations C02 output seem puny and weak by comparison.
This is not true.
http://grist.org/climate-energy/volc...2-than-humans/ Occasional massive volcanoes approach the amount of CO2 emitted by humans, but we do this every single year.
Quote:
"Mother earth" isn't a living, breathing being...and doesn't really care if her skin is teeming with life or a barren wasteland.
And? I think you've said this before and I don't see the point behind it. We should care if there's life on Earth or if it gets wiped out. If we're engaging in activities with a significant chance of making life much harder for ourselves, and harming innumerable other species along the way, we ought to try to stop if the costs are reasonable.

Quote:
That's not the real issue, but rather proving without a shadow of a doubt that all of that 1.8 degree increase the past 50 years is man-made.
Why is the threshold "proving without a shadow of a doubt?" It's a weighted risk assessment. If you have a 95% chance of your house getting destroyed by an earthquake in the next 10 years, you probably are going to buy insurance (or move). That's about what we ought to be doing now, looking for "insurance" by evaluating options on a cost/benefit basis going forward.
Old 02-02-2012, 02:02 PM Gibonius is offline  
Reply With Quote
#2042  

teh scud
 
teh scud's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama View Post
Make electricity more abundant..maybe, but cheaper won't happen for quite some time. The thing I find ironic is that a steadfast belief in man-made global warming usually goes hand in hand with championing for the poor and disadvantaged of the world. Who do you think would be hurt most if we jerked our knees and actually took meaningful action based on the doomsday prophets? Of course that is all dependent on getting developing nations to comply and feel the same sort of guilt that developed nations have. Or do we simply concentrate on ourselves while developing nations (along with Russia/China) carry on business as usual...while watching the economies of the U.S./EU regress?

I think the last paragraph of that article I linked says it best..and the key word is "rational"


China isn't carrying on as usual -- China is already kicking our ass in terms of green energy (and not just in terms of GDP percentage). In 2009, China's private investment was almost double ours. While we're being timid bitches and catering to the lobbying of large oil companies, the rest of the world is already aggressively investing in clean tech. Why? Because renewable energy is just plain smart. Find all the anti-renewable News Corp articles you want. Renewable energy is obviously the future and America shouldn't let itself fall behind the rest of the world -- we should be leading the charge.
Old 02-02-2012, 06:35 PM teh scud is offline  
Reply With Quote
#2043  

Jack's raging erection
 
Jack's raging erection's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by teh scud View Post


China isn't carrying on as usual -- China is already kicking our ass in terms of green energy (and not just in terms of GDP percentage). In 2009, China's private investment was almost double ours. While we're being timid bitches and catering to the lobbying of large oil companies, the rest of the world is already aggressively investing in clean tech. Why? Because renewable energy is just plain smart. Find all the anti-renewable News Corp articles you want. Renewable energy is obviously the future and America shouldn't let itself fall behind the rest of the world -- we should be leading the charge.

Amount of each country's GDP much?
__________________
My real name is Shaved Dog's Ass.
Old 02-02-2012, 09:56 PM Jack's raging erection is offline  
Reply With Quote
#2044  

teh scud
 
teh scud's Avatar
 
Hint: China still beats US if you ignore GDP (which is silly to do)
Old 02-02-2012, 11:21 PM teh scud is offline  
Reply With Quote
#2045  

TheMorlock
Contrary to my previous title I never fucked Inf's mother
 
TheMorlock's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
Media was all over that, but "scientists" never were. There was one big paper, hotly contested by the rest of the scientific community. It's all there in the literature, global cooling was never a widely held view.

one of the biggest AGW supporters is the guy that wanted to coat the arctic ice cap with coal dust to prevent the big freeze.
__________________
There is nothing to worry about. Legions of wise people with nothing but all of best interests at heart are ensuring our future of love and infinite bliss. Go watch TV :Bflaps
http://www.genmay.com/showthread.php?t=572323
Old 02-02-2012, 11:25 PM TheMorlock is offline  
Reply With Quote
#2046  

Jack's raging erection
 
Jack's raging erection's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by teh scud View Post
Hint: China still beats US if you ignore GDP (which is silly to do)

Yeah, because that's where we sent most of our manufacturing, but, technically, if it's produced in China for the U.S., as a design and patent of the U.S., for a U.S. company, it still counts as U.S. goods somehow. I was just pointing out the detail that the total GDP of each country is different and comparing percentages of each country's GDP spent is a rather inaccurate way of seeing who's eco-friendly penis is bigger.
__________________
My real name is Shaved Dog's Ass.
Old 02-02-2012, 11:41 PM Jack's raging erection is offline  
Reply With Quote
#2047  

pyramid
COORS LIGHTSPEED: ENGAGED
 
pyramid's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack's raging erection View Post
I was just pointing out the detail that the total GDP of each country is different and comparing percentages of each country's GDP spent is a rather inaccurate way of seeing who's eco-friendly penis is bigger.

unless you know math...

China's GDP = ~6trillion. .7% of that = 42 billion.
USA's GDP = ~15trillion. .13% of that = 19.5 billion.

but it would be nice if they did the math for you already...
__________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monsters_Are_Due_on_Maple_Street
Old 02-02-2012, 11:46 PM pyramid is offline  
Reply With Quote
#2048  

Jack's raging erection
 
Jack's raging erection's Avatar
 
Remember that GDP = C + I + G + (X - M) shit from economics? That's 40 and 20 bn of all of those factors. It doesn't tell me how many green tech goods were actually produced, bought, and actually fucking used, which are the results that actually matter. It tells me a little about the potential to produce, but nothing about actual production.

From the original, China's investment was double ours. Great, they're still building the fucking factory. Units produced? How the fuck do I know?
__________________
My real name is Shaved Dog's Ass.

Last edited by Jack's raging erection; 02-03-2012 at 12:14 AM..
Old 02-03-2012, 12:06 AM Jack's raging erection is offline  
Reply With Quote
#2049  

joemama
Watch Toomer burn those cowboys. How bout them cowboys?
 
joemama's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
one of the biggest AGW supporters is the guy that wanted to coat the arctic ice cap with coal dust to prevent the big freeze.
Good thing we didn't listen to him back then, but now we should not only listen to him....but pass a whole shitload of legislation based on his flip.
__________________
Rapid-fire double bass of the GenMay dru[M]mers collective

Syndrome of a Downs- drums/songwriter
._--_|\
/ииииииии\
\_.--Bumfuck Egypt
.......v
Old 02-03-2012, 07:28 AM joemama is offline  
Reply With Quote
#2050  

[H]ard|On
tell me i is retarded and i will just potato
 
[H]ard|On's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyramid View Post
unless you know math...

China's GDP = ~6trillion. .7% of that = 42 billion.
USA's GDP = ~15trillion. .13% of that = 19.5 billion.

but it would be nice if they did the math for you already...

It's easy to make a mistake and think of it as 7 versus 13



if you're really stoned
__________________
Make Genmay Great Again
Old 02-03-2012, 06:14 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
Reply With Quote
#2051  

TheMorlock
Contrary to my previous title I never fucked Inf's mother
 
TheMorlock's Avatar
 
so what we have is claim after claim about what mans effect on the enviroment i going to do and has done and then we have Actual data by scientists that dont think a closed jar of co2 on their desk is the same as the earths atmosphere.

How many claims need to be shot down before believers quit trying to blow smoke up peoples asses?

and sorry that 99% of scientists agree with AGW has been busted a dozen time. Ask the APS

And of course you can ask the founder of greenpeace
__________________
There is nothing to worry about. Legions of wise people with nothing but all of best interests at heart are ensuring our future of love and infinite bliss. Go watch TV :Bflaps
http://www.genmay.com/showthread.php?t=572323

Last edited by TheMorlock; 02-03-2012 at 11:15 PM..
Old 02-03-2012, 11:00 PM TheMorlock is offline  
Reply With Quote
#2052  

JCviggen
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
How many claims need to be shot down before believers quit trying to blow smoke up peoples asses?

I feel like you've got this slightly backwards, the "believers" in this case appear to be the ones who passionately believe global warming is a hoax. This group is displaying almost religious belief that warming is a hoax, and incidentally tend to be quite religious themselves.

Certain enough there are global warming believers that fit the same bill but they're extremely rare by comparison.

The only rational conclusion right now is that there is no conclusion. Global warming may or may not be something we should take seriously. There is NO ultimate scientific agreement on this because it's such a hornets nest to figure out with countless parameters whose influence can only be estimated to a certain degree. There are a very good number of scientists however who do think it plausible that mankind's emissions are seriouly affecting the climate, even if it's hard to predict where it'll go from here this is something we don't want to ignore.

The only sensible thing to do is to look at the realistic worst case scenario and take steps to avoid that. If it doesn't happen, oh good I guess it was nothing to worry after all. If it does happen oh shit we're all fucked. I mean a little bit of prudence never hurt anyone did it? When something has potential disastrous consequences you're supposed to err on the side of caution if you have more than 2 brain cells.

Showing a firm disbelief in global warming until someone "conclusively" proves it just shows a religious stubbornness and willingness to jeopardize our children's children's future for reasons.
Another reason why I think this stuff has become religious, if tomorrow science would "conclusively" prove global warming is real and urgent, most of the people currently denying it will simply consider this another conspiracy from the not-to-be-trusted scientists.
I mean, evolution has been an established fact for ages and that hasn't stopped millions and millions from thinking its a hoax
__________________
A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking.
Old 02-03-2012, 11:42 PM JCviggen is offline  
Reply With Quote
#2053  

TheMorlock
Contrary to my previous title I never fucked Inf's mother
 
TheMorlock's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCviggen View Post
I feel like you've got this slightly backwards, the "believers" in this case appear to be the ones who passionately believe global warming is a hoax. This group is displaying almost religious belief that warming is a hoax, and incidentally tend to be quite religious themselves.

Certain enough there are global warming believers that fit the same bill but they're extremely rare by comparison.

The only rational conclusion right now is that there is no conclusion. Global warming may or may not be something we should take seriously. There is NO ultimate scientific agreement on this because it's such a hornets nest to figure out with countless parameters whose influence can only be estimated to a certain degree. There are a very good number of scientists however who do think it plausible that mankind's emissions are seriouly affecting the climate, even if it's hard to predict where it'll go from here this is something we don't want to ignore.

The only sensible thing to do is to look at the realistic worst case scenario and take steps to avoid that. If it doesn't happen, oh good I guess it was nothing to worry after all. If it does happen oh shit we're all fucked. I mean a little bit of prudence never hurt anyone did it? When something has potential disastrous consequences you're supposed to err on the side of caution if you have more than 2 brain cells.

Showing a firm disbelief in global warming until someone "conclusively" proves it just shows a religious stubbornness and willingness to jeopardize our children's children's future for reasons.
Another reason why I think this stuff has become religious, if tomorrow science would "conclusively" prove global warming is real and urgent, most of the people currently denying it will simply consider this another conspiracy from the not-to-be-trusted scientists.
I mean, evolution has been an established fact for ages and that hasn't stopped millions and millions from thinking its a hoax


you may actually want to go through the thread and find out the AGW statements of FACtm versus reality, Its no contest. the links are all there. once it was possible to present data without getting fired it poured in.

Paying attention to actual fact instead of ZOMG that international prize winning climate reconstruction specialist that disagrees with us cant get a job due to our efforts can be called a blogger.
__________________
There is nothing to worry about. Legions of wise people with nothing but all of best interests at heart are ensuring our future of love and infinite bliss. Go watch TV :Bflaps
http://www.genmay.com/showthread.php?t=572323
Old 02-03-2012, 11:56 PM TheMorlock is offline  
Reply With Quote
#2054  

JCviggen
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
you may actually want to go through the thread and find out the AGW statements of FACtm versus reality, Its no contest.

Wild exaggeration. Nobody yet knows what "reality" is. You need to pay more attention to the actual science being done instead of jump onto examples that "prove" nothing.

All the time new factors are being added to the model. The climate is staggeringly complicated to model accurately and we're not even close. But we are in an exceptional warming period right now, there's no question about that. Exceptional things CAN happen naturally, but there's no proof that this is what's happening currently.

It's complicated to extract temporary effects from long trend ones. Whilst some of our emissions certainly would be able to create a warming effect, other stuff we put into the air can create (sometimes temporary) cooling. Then there's the difficulty of extracting the outside influences on the planet (solar activity, cosmic rays).
It could well be (there are some indications but again no certainties) that we will experience a temporary leveling or decrease in the global temperature in the next few decades. It's necessary to look at the big picture to realize that it might not be a good idea to conclude from this that everything's fine and we don't need to care about it. When the external influences go from "cooling" to "warming" and on top of that our atmosphere has been loaded with greenhouse gases the result could be quite damaging.
Could, would, maybe, who knows. No scientist right now has conclusive evidence of anything, but we have small pieces of the puzzle which is enough to understand that the potential consequences are very real and to be avoided at all cost.

Nobody with a brain in their heads would propose going to a zero emission society tomorrow, but there is every reason to minimize our impact as much as we realistically can.
__________________
A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking.
Old 02-04-2012, 12:27 AM JCviggen is offline  
Reply With Quote
#2055  

Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:49 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.