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pyramid
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Magazine comparison. H&K vs. C-products Stainless Steel

H&K on the left, C-Products on the right. Both are stainless steel as far as I can tell. The H&Ks are slightly heavier.





The H&Ks are solid like a mercedes and have a price to match. The C-products are built almost as well and cost 1/5th as much. Both are superior to standard aluminum USGI units IMHO.

For one thing, neither the H&K or the CPSS magazines sound like an old out of tune banjo just hit the floor when you drop them. Second, the followers are of much higher quality which makes feeding and loading better. The followers are black on the H&Ks and I went with high visibility orange for the CPSS units because I plan to use them at the range. The finishes are about equal in quality. The CPSS units are a little darker and a little more reflective. The H&Ks probably look a little more reflective in the pics but that is because their surface coating seems to scatter light in more directions. The CPSS coating reflects more light directionally. Compare the bright spots where light is reflected back to the source.



That's not an optical illusion, the H&K mags are big, bigger than the CPSS mags. The CPSS units seem to be maybe a millimeter or so shorter than my aluminum USGI mags. I'm assuming the extra size on the H&Ks is for extra spring relief and perhaps because the auto-leveling feature of their followers takes up more space. I have not taken them apart yet. The HKs also seem to have a more consistent curve where the CPSS mags are more USGI like with two straighter segments at each end joined by a bend in the middle. The HK mag has a straight top that transitions smoothly into a continuously curving bottom.



I plan to use the CPSS mags for range duty and I keep the H&Ks loaded and ready for home defense / predator duty. I like them both and would recommend them both depending on what you can spend on a magazine. If you can spend the money, the H&Ks are awesome, but for 1/5th the cost you can have 5 times as many american made mags that will probably last you just as long and work just as well. I spent $240 for four H&K mags and $130 for ten CPSS mags.

And that's about all I have to say about that...
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Last edited by pyramid; 02-14-2009 at 04:20 PM..
Old 02-14-2009, 01:04 AM pyramid is offline  
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O.F.Fascist
 
PMAGs > *

I've read somewhere that the internals of the HK mags are proprietary so when the springs finally give up you cant just go and replace them. If that is the case that alone would keep me from using them, combined that with the price and well...
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Old 02-14-2009, 01:26 AM O.F.Fascist is offline  
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Aluminum has worked fine for the last 50 years. I have some of the CPSS and PMAGS and still prefer straight aluminum 20s. And they are cheap

Plus don't much like the idea of slamming steel mags into an aluminum receiver, though it's probably a non-issue.
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Old 02-14-2009, 10:45 AM BPJ is offline  
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00 Buck
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.F.Fascist View Post
PMAGs > *

I've read somewhere that the internals of the HK mags are proprietary so when the springs finally give up you cant just go and replace them. If that is the case that alone would keep me from using them, combined that with the price and well...

+1. H&K's are overpriced and heavy.
Old 02-14-2009, 01:43 PM 00 Buck is offline  
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pyramid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPJ View Post
Aluminum has worked fine for the last 50 years. I have some of the CPSS and PMAGS and still prefer straight aluminum 20s. And they are cheap
The CP-SS mags only cost like a buck more than the CP-AL mags.

Quote:
Plus don't much like the idea of slamming steel mags into an aluminum receiver, though it's probably a non-issue.
The BCG is a highly hardened steel part. If it can cycle 30 times per mag at high speed and pressure under varying heat soak / expansion conditions in a forged aluminum upper then your chances of doing any serious harm to a forged aluminum lower with a stainless steel mag are probably slim to none. IMHO your BCG should wear out the races in your upper long before your SS mags wear out the mag-well in your lower.

Plus the metal mags are made of is thin and the edges seem better rounded of on both the H&Ks and the CP-SS mags. I have a C-product aluminum mag and it was already damaged slightly from being dropped empty on a carpeted floor while practicing mag changes. The lower cover (not sure of the exact name) is bent slightly and doesn't quite lock into place correctly any more and the mag has only been used maybe a dozen times so far. Also, before hitting the carpeted floor from a sitting height it had only previously landed on my padded sofa from a height of inches. I just missed the one time and that was enough.
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Old 02-15-2009, 01:10 AM pyramid is offline  
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BPJ
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyramid View Post
The CP-SS mags only cost like a buck more than the CP-AL mags.

CP mags aren't USGI though.


Quote:
The BCG is a highly hardened steel part. If it can cycle 30 times per mag at high speed and pressure under varying heat soak / expansion conditions in a forged aluminum upper then your chances of doing any serious harm to a forged aluminum lower with a stainless steel mag are probably slim to none. IMHO your BCG should wear out the races in your upper long before your SS mags wear out the mag-well in your lower.
Good point.
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Old 02-15-2009, 12:05 PM BPJ is offline  
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CommiePunk
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are p-mags what i should buy? i've heard good things about them and just got my AR yesterday.
Old 02-15-2009, 07:39 PM CommiePunk is offline  
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DarkHelmet
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I like the Lancer L5 mags. They are just as good as the P-Mags IMHO.
Old 02-15-2009, 07:46 PM DarkHelmet is offline  
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O.F.Fascist
 
PMAGS get pretty great reviews from people who are more serious shooters than I am.

I'm mostly an AK guy so I dont use my AR too hard I dont have too much personal experience but I do like my PMAGs. I am stocking up on more AR stuff now though.



I have an older Colt Sporter Lightweight.
I have two C-Products mags, 1 SS 20 rounder and 1 Aluminum 30 rounder, 3 PMAGs one with window, and 1 Lancer mag that I just recently got too.

I've heard alot of good things about the Lancer mags, and they look pretty cool too. On the mag base they have a rubber pad presumable to help protect the mags from damage from being dropped while reloading, and they also have metal feedlip reinforcement. The only potentially bad thing I've heard about them is that DEET (the stuff used in bug spray) can damage the plastic so be careful spraying yourself down when using them. Other than that IMO the only real reason more people buy PMAGs than Lancers is the price, although right now PMAGs are sold out at their price while you can get Lancers for a bit more.

That being said I put in a back order for a couple of 20 round PMAGs and four black 30 rounders. I'm probably also going to order another two more Lancer mags when I get paid.
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Old 02-15-2009, 09:51 PM O.F.Fascist is offline  
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pyramid
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I was going to ask what was so great about the PMags but then I saw this:

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


and:

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Pretty impressive but my question is what happens if there were ammo in the magazines. In the metal ones they deform and the damage is apparent. The pmags likely deform too but spring back into shape and the ammo inside could be damaged too but if you looked at the pmag and it looked fine you might try to run that pmag and ammo through your gun which might end badly for you.

Though I'm not sure how often people are having their full mags run over. I can see empties being discarded in a street and collected later but I wonder how often mags really do need to survive getting run over, full or empty. I guess that's more important in an urban combat zone.
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Old 02-16-2009, 12:38 AM pyramid is offline  
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00 Buck
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyramid View Post
I was going to ask what was so great about the PMags but then I saw this:

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


and:

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Pretty impressive but my question is what happens if there were ammo in the magazines. In the metal ones they deform and the damage is apparent. The pmags likely deform too but spring back into shape and the ammo inside could be damaged too but if you looked at the pmag and it looked fine you might try to run that pmag and ammo through your gun which might end badly for you.

Though I'm not sure how often people are having their full mags run over. I can see empties being discarded in a street and collected later but I wonder how often mags really do need to survive getting run over, full or empty. I guess that's more important in an urban combat zone.

Pmags are awesome for these reasons:

Relatively Cheap
Light
Durable (tens of thousands of rounds through a single mag {no, I'm not gonna find a link!})
Not as easily dented

The ability to withstand being ran over could be useful for running and gunning in a densely populated area... Suppose you were wearing a chest rig carrier and fell two stories onto the mags.

Just try not to drop it on the feed lips, I cracked a nice windowed FDE one recently. Not bad, but it's designated as a trainer mag from now on.
Old 02-16-2009, 02:40 AM 00 Buck is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPJ View Post
Aluminum has worked fine for the last 50 years. I have some of the CPSS and PMAGS and still prefer straight aluminum 20s. And they are cheap

Plus don't much like the idea of slamming steel mags into an aluminum receiver, though it's probably a non-issue.

I've never understood why anyone would want straight 20 round mags outside of prone shooting or bench rest shooting where the length of the 30 rounders could be an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHelmet View Post
I like the Lancer L5 mags. They are just as good as the P-Mags IMHO.

I don't know about that. I hear good things about them but I'm not sure how durable they are in comparison.
Old 02-16-2009, 08:23 AM Firehawk0220 is offline  
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Ive got 10 hks I acquired from the my last deployment.
I dont really like them. Have more luch with circle k ones I took also sucks cause I was excited to use them.
I should have known though. When we went to the range to do our table 2 range, I had massive failures that I just summed up to a faulty magazine or my weapon was dirty and it was like 9 degrees F outside...but alas I think they just suck ass.

Glad I didnt pay for them
Old 02-16-2009, 08:33 AM Caelum is offline  
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Firehawk0220
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyramid View Post
Snip...................
I plan to use the CPSS mags for range duty and I keep the H&Ks loaded and ready for home defense / predator duty. I like them both and would recommend them both depending on what you can spend on a magazine. If you can spend the money, the H&Ks are awesome, but for 1/5th the cost you can have 5 times as many american made mags that will probably last you just as long and work just as well. I spent $240 for four H&K mags and $130 for ten CPSS mags.

And that's about all I have to say about that...

I've had a couple of H&K mags and I've got three AR-15's. One of the H&K mags is reliable as any USGI mag but not any more so. The other one is reliable in my Bushmaster, but won't even hold the bolt open on my Double-Star 15 AR-15 pistol. The same mag gives me feeding issues from time to time in my Colt. Needless to say I am not impressed by the H&K magazines. Too much cost and the reliability hasn't been there for me. They are nicer, but functionally no better than USGI magazines. A friend of mine turned me on to PMags. I was skeptical at first due to their design. Plastic etc. I bought two and gave them a try. Now I have about 12 of them. They are all I use anymore. Ammunition cycles more reliably in all my AR's and I haven't had a single malfunction in any of my AR's since switching to PMags. Now they'll all feed any ammunition where as they were finicky before using some ammunition through the H&K magazines.

Basically, I am convinced that PMags are the best AR-15/M-4/M-16 magazine on the market today. For general defense, range shooting, and for the zombie invasion the PMag is my magazine of choice for AR style rifles.
Old 02-16-2009, 08:34 AM Firehawk0220 is offline  
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pyramid
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Looks like I need to invest in some Pmags. I was sort of hesitant because the polymer mags I used to get for my SKS didn't cycle ammo as well as the metal ones without some modification to the feed lips.
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Old 02-16-2009, 06:36 PM pyramid is offline  
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