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MC
 
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Yawn.

Once again, if the math is soooooo easy , as you claim. Why can't these same scientists figure out why the Antarctic ice shelf is thickening and expanding? Hmm
Old 06-28-2008, 03:36 PM MC is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Yawn.

Once again, if the math is soooooo easy , as you claim. Why can't these same scientists figure out why the Antarctic ice shelf is thickening and expanding? Hmm

Quit talking out your ass. You know that a large scale volcanic event capable of blowing a 6 mile long island off the face of the earth cant even melt an ice cube. How could it help melt polar ice at the Height of summer?
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Old 06-28-2008, 05:30 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Good Read

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Truth may enter the world by many doors, but she is never escorted by force. I thought that was a lesson learned long ago, and learned by none more tellingly than scientists. Real scientists, actually, have learned it. A new amalgam has emerged however, the scientist-activist, and for that specimen it's a lesson passed by.

In the dawn of the Enlightenment, it was scientists who were hauled before tribunals and inquisitions. Galileo is the arch example, the pioneer empiricist who rejected the ancient Earth-centric model of the (then known) universe, and for his pains earned the attention and wrath of the distinctly unscientific Inquisition.

I am drawn to these thoughts, and to the long-decayed example of the Inquisition, by a most curious outburst this week by James Hansen, the principal voice of NASA on the subject of global warming, a man who played – as it were – John the Baptist to Al Gore's messianic teachings on the subject. Dr. Hansen is largely credited with “sounding the alarm” on man-made global warming, and he has been a persistent, high-profile and very aggressive proponent of the cause for over two decades now. Dr. Hansen doesn't take kindly to those who dispute his apocalyptic scenarios. I choose the term, apocalyptic, deliberately. According to Dr. Hansen, mankind may have reached the tipping point with global warming. Should that be the case, wide-scale calamity and catastrophe are inevitable. And should we not have reached the point of absolute crisis, should there be a minuscule interval for the human species to act and avert the very worst, according to Dr. Hansen, what yet remains to be faced is still horrible enough indeed.

Not all the world shares Dr. Hansen's vision of imminent ecological Armageddon. Serious minds, seriously disinterested in the subject, throw up caveats all the time. They question the models of climatological speculation; they question the peculiar mix of man-made and other likely sources of climate dynamics; they question some of the data gathering and some of its interpretation; and they question the very maturity of the highly complex, and experimentally deficient science of global warming itself.

They seriously question, too, the massive policy prescriptions that are being insisted upon as necessary in response to the scientific determinations of man-made global warming. There is lots of room for different, honest opinion on questions so large and complex, questions at the terribly complicated intersection of science, politics and economics.

But, to Dr. Hansen's agitated mind, those who raise such questions, who inject skepticism into the global warming debate, are “deniers.” The word here is becoming commonplace, but it remains a singular slur. A clutch of the global warming believers like to cast all who would argue with them into the polemical pit, the pit being that dissent from orthodox opinion on global warming as the equivalent of Holocaust denial. It is a shameless and vicious tactic, and hardly accords with the nobility that is suppose to drive the conscience of those out to save the planet. Dr. Hansen is overfond of the specious and chilling analogy: He has written of the “crashing glaciers serv(ing) as a Krystal Nacht” and, although he later repented of the metaphor, compared coal trains to “death trains – no less gruesome than if they were boxcars headed to crematoria, loaded with uncountable irreplaceable species.” This week, Dr. Hansen went a step even more noxiously forward.

He called for a tribunal, or as I prefer to call it, an Inquisition, to put on trial for crimes against nature and humanity, the CEOs of the big oil companies who, according to Dr. Hansen's frantic view of things, feed the public “misinformation” about the climate crisis. Again the implicit model is to Nuremberg, as the man attempts to put concern for a future – let us call it a probability – on a moral and factual par with the unquestioned, historical, shattering enormity of the Nazi Holocaust.

Is this a scientist speaking? If so, it is more than curious that in the 21st century it is the scientist calling for the secular equivalent of an Inquisition. More to the point, are these the words of a man really certain of his truth, or one who – with the anxiety of the fanatic – is trying to shield it from all rigour of skepticism and inquiry? In either case, I do not question at all the assertion that it is the voice of a man who is neither a friend to reason or science. This is the voice of the scientist-activist consumed with his own virtue and fearful of all dispute.

Science has no need of tribunals or trials, no need of Nuremberg justice, or analogies with the Holocaust. James Hansen's words this week were an offence, an offence against inquiry, against science, against moral seriousness. They were a piece of insolence against the idea of debate itself.
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Old 06-28-2008, 05:35 PM jubjub is offline  
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REX MURPHY should be shot with the rest of the collaborators
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Old 06-28-2008, 07:13 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Quit talking out your ass. You know that a large scale volcanic event capable of blowing a 6 mile long island off the face of the earth cant even melt an ice cube. How could it help melt polar ice at the Height of summer?

No one said it couldn't help, just that it wouldn't do it by itself. Something else is contributing.
Old 06-28-2008, 08:08 PM Gibonius is offline  
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No one said it couldn't help, just that it wouldn't do it by itself. Something else is contributing.

You mean by the double solar maximum?

and what is the basis that it can not do it by itself?

How long has this extra activity been going on? What is driving it? What is the minimum and maximum theoretical boundries?

Morons discredited the blog in the same way that "scientist" is punking himself with godwins law. Junk science from a junk scientist.

Stop and think for a moment.

I can think of half a dozen factors that the simpletons rejecting vulcanism as being able to do this have to have their faces rubbed in.

YOu have the basic skill set and still swallow the global warming shit whole even AFTER it has been shown that data has been faked. Even After it has been shown that antarctic Ice mass is increasing, that seas are colder that atmosphere is colder.



YOu want a clue ask nicely
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Old 06-28-2008, 08:34 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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You mean by the double solar maximum?

and what is the basis that it can not do it by itself?

How long has this extra activity been going on? What is driving it? What is the minimum and maximum theoretical boundries?

Morons discredited the blog in the same way that "scientist" is punking himself with godwins law. Junk science from a junk scientist.

Stop and think for a moment.

I can think of half a dozen factors that the simpletons rejecting vulcanism as being able to do this have to have their faces rubbed in.

YOu have the basic skill set and still swallow the global warming shit whole even AFTER it has been shown that data has been faked. Even After it has been shown that antarctic Ice mass is increasing, that seas are colder that atmosphere is colder.



YOu want a clue ask nicely
Come on man, apply some fucking critical thinking yourself. You're buying some fuckwit blogger with no scientific training at all, whose whole thesis is "DUDE, there's volcanoes and maybe they melted the ice! Maybe! I wouldn't know because I haven't done any math or actually tested my idea in any way, but isn't it a cool idea!" VS a a PhD geophysicist at Wood's Hole who got published in Nature, you know, where other experts actually expect you to have some evidence for your claims, who says "Nope, no way they could have released enough energy to melt that much ice."

If Mr Fuckwit Blogger has such a solid idea, he should go get it published in a peer reviewed journal. Maybe you should be a co-author

I'm not arguing for man-made GW here. I'm simply saying that the volcanism thing has been shot down by people who know a hell of a lot more than some blogger.
Old 06-29-2008, 07:22 AM Gibonius is offline  
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Come on man, apply some fucking critical thinking yourself. You're buying some fuckwit blogger with no scientific training at all, whose whole thesis is "DUDE, there's volcanoes and maybe they melted the ice! Maybe! I wouldn't know because I haven't done any math or actually tested my idea in any way, but isn't it a cool idea!" VS a a PhD geophysicist at Wood's Hole who got published in Nature, you know, where other experts actually expect you to have some evidence for your claims, who says "Nope, no way they could have released enough energy to melt that much ice."

If Mr Fuckwit Blogger has such a solid idea, he should go get it published in a peer reviewed journal. Maybe you should be a co-author

I'm not arguing for man-made GW here. I'm simply saying that the volcanism thing has been shot down by people who know a hell of a lot more than some blogger.


YOu mean shot down by the same people that alter data sets to conform to their chosen models?

But I don't think the blogger works for Woods Hole.

I told you to ask nicely. So no clue for you.
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Old 06-29-2008, 10:56 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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YOu mean shot down by the same people that alter data sets to conform to their chosen models?

But I don't think the blogger works for Woods Hole.

"The same people" meaning "anybody that says anything even vaguely in support of global warming." Wee. Those dastardly scientists, always inventing numbers whenever it suits them! We should just listen to random bloggers who don't support their arguments in any way whatsoever, that's much more likely to be reliable.

It's pretty hilarious how low a standard you'll accept for any argument that goes against GW.
Old 06-29-2008, 12:51 PM Gibonius is offline  
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TheMorlock
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"The same people" meaning "anybody that says anything even vaguely in support of global warming." Wee. Those dastardly scientists, always inventing numbers whenever it suits them! We should just listen to random bloggers who don't support their arguments in any way whatsoever, that's much more likely to be reliable.

It's pretty hilarious how low a standard you'll accept for any argument that goes against GW.

Random bloggers? I guess you failed to read some of the links.

You know about unprecedented volcanic activity for at least 9 years, Seen Nowhere else but in the antarctic? That the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute found? Volcanic activity strong enough to throw ejecta a kilometer high under what? 20 atmospheres of pressure?(just guesing I dont know the pressure 4 klicks down) That was only realized in 2007 AND YOU FUCKING THINK THAT ONE YEAR IS ENOUGH TO DISCARD THAT AS HAVING SIGNIFICANT EFFECT. If thats your idea of science... You sicken me.

Um the Same People as in the ones caught faking data. The same ones that you believed when they said that the increase in ice mass in antarctica is peripheral ice.

I don't know if there is global warming or not. I do know that faking data is not science.
Comparing objectors to nazi holocaust is not science.

Learn to fucking read.

I guess I shelve you with the rest of the pathetic buttmunchers that cant tell quasi science political agenda's from legitimate research when it is staring you in the face.


No clue for you!
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Last edited by TheMorlock; 06-29-2008 at 01:52 PM..
Old 06-29-2008, 01:46 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Random bloggers? I guess you failed to read some of the links.
There's not a single link in there that actually has any real evidence beyond "Hey look at these maps isn't that neat". Quote from said fuckwit blog:
Quote:
Am I seeing things? Who knows - again I don’t have the data to do any analysis, don’t have any seismic recordings to compare to the annual sea ice thickness, don’t have current maps. Hopefully some real scientists will have the money and time to work this all out. Seems it would be prudent before we make today’s energy prices a fond memory as we embark on a fool’s errand to cut CO2 emissions to no effect.
The guy hasn't done ANY ACTUAL ANALYSIS. NONE. The only reason you buy into it is because it supports the decisions you already came to.

Quote:
Um the Same People as in the ones caught faking data. The same ones that you believed when they said that the increase in ice mass in antarctica is peripheral ice.
What the fucking hell are you talking about? Unless you have some evidence that THESE SPECIFIC PEOPLE faked data, shut the fuck up. This guilt by vague strands of association shit is tedious.

Quote:
I guess I shelve you with the rest of the pathetic buttmunchers that cant tell quasi science political agenda's from legitimate research when it is staring you in the face.

No clue for you!
Says the guy supporting a completely hollow hypothesis from some political blogger who admits he hasn't done any actual analysis.

Well played!
Old 06-29-2008, 02:28 PM Gibonius is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Learn to fucking read

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...c-volcano.html

thats just one you pathetic sack of shit
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Old 06-29-2008, 02:30 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Learn to fucking read

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...c-volcano.html

thats just one you pathetic sack of shit

All that article says in that there are volcanoes going off underwater. It's almost identical to the article I posted. That doesn't support the "It's melting all the ice!!!11111" hypothesis one iota.

LEARN TO FUCKING READ!!!!
Old 06-29-2008, 02:45 PM Gibonius is offline  
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TheMorlock
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All that article says in that there are volcanoes going off underwater. It's almost identical to the article I posted. That doesn't support the "It's melting all the ice!!!11111" hypothesis one iota.

LEARN TO FUCKING READ!!!!

for 8 years/ unprecedented levels that have never been seen underwater before. Level of activity the same that burried Pompei under Meters of ash. Yeah not melting any ice Nope No way

etc etc etc

Fact

seas are colder

Fact
atmosphere is colder

Fact
Antarctic Ice mass had increased.

Fact

Junk science gets caught outright lying



Quote:
Originally Posted by not the blogger
color=moron alert red(yes that is not a typo) This earthquake swarm was the largest in recorded history along a spreading mid-ocean ridge and prompted researchers to return to the area for further investigation.

In 2007 Sohn and his team stumbled across the glassy pyroclastic rock deposits while searching for hydrothermal vent fields in the Gakkel Ridge.

Powerful eruptions sent a plume of carbon dioxide, helium, and liquid lava up into the Arctic waters. When the material cooled, rock debris fell to the ocean floor, he explained.

your pathetic buttmunch status stands
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Last edited by TheMorlock; 06-29-2008 at 03:04 PM..
Old 06-29-2008, 02:48 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Keep arguing in support of an unsupported hypothesis some political blogger came up with
Old 06-29-2008, 03:08 PM Gibonius is offline  
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