General [M]ayhem

Go Back   General [M]ayhem > Real Time Sub-Forums > The Pit
Register Members List Mark Forums Read [M]erchandise Calendar

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Mr. Greg
I'm obsessed with DHermit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by leo View Post
Sigh. He is free to go when he pleases, this has already been established. My question to you is, how should you expect an employee, trained and paid to inspect receipts, react to an individual who sets off the barcode scanner while approaching an exit? You are not being harassed, accosted, or accused of theft, the doorman is simply following protocol in an effort to determine why the barcode scanner was alerted when you passed through it. In such a scenario, YOU ARE FREE TO LEAVE AT WILL, but with all things considored, why not show the man some respect and oblige his request to easily diffuse the situation instead of making it into a bigger deal than it really is.
I suspect your answer is "becase I can".

The fact that he steps in front of you impedes your exit. Clearly he wants an answer before you step out that door, and he is not willing to take a "no" as you walk straight out the doors. You shouldn't have to step around him to exit a store, as the buyer has every right that everyone else walking out of that store has, whether the EAS tag detector goes off or not. The proper procedure should be to stand alongside, not in front of, the door, and take no for an answer without any other question, which has always happened to me. No hassle for me, no hassle for them. If they knew I had shoplifted, they would of physically stopped me due to evidence. Simple as that.
__________________
Moose's brother.

Louis Potgieter (1951-1996) NEVER FORGET
Old 05-01-2008, 12:20 PM Mr. Greg is offline  
Reply With Quote
#391  

Advertisement [Remove Advertisement]

leo
 
leo's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Greg View Post
The fact that he steps in front of you impedes your exit. Clearly he wants an answer before you step out that door, and he is not willing to take a "no" as you walk straight out the doors. You shouldn't have to step around him to exit a store, as the buyer has every right that everyone else walking out of that store has, whether the EAS tag detector goes off or not. The proper procedure should be to stand alongside, not in front of, the door, and take no for an answer without any other question, which has always happened to me. No hassle for me, no hassle for them. If they knew I had shoplifted, they would of physically stopped me due to evidence. Simple as that.

If the tag scanner is of no consequence, what's to stop me from walking into a store, grabbing a DVD and simply walking out with it? I don't conceal the DVD, I simply walk out with it in hand. The scanner will go off, he'll stop me and ask me to see my receipt, I will refuse and walk out. As far as he knows, I didn't steal anything, and Walmart security has not been alerted to my theft because there is nothing out of the ordinary about a man picking up a DVD. Maybe the doorman didn't see me in line, but I'll just let him know that I paid for it at the electronics counter. At what point do they have a right to see proof of purchase?
Old 05-01-2008, 01:02 PM leo is offline  
Reply With Quote
#392  

lopoetve
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rang3find3r View Post
yep.. hence, when I get pulled over when I'm doing absolutely nothing wrong, and the cop gives me some about a tail light or license plate light(as is usually the case, and I verify every single time afterwards that it's in fact working), I still am nice to the cop and show him my license and shit, because it's way fucking easier to comply and be on my way shortly than it is to be a dick.. that's what Mr. Greg, TheMorlock, mathlete and quite a few others here just don't fucking get.

I never said I'm not nice - quite the contrary, I'm unfailingly polite. I just refuse to relinquish anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rang3find3r View Post
this ISN'T a problem, that's the point. I'm not afraid of any police. I don't act like a dickhead when someone asks to check my fucking receipt, so I don't have a problem. where the fuck you got the idea that I'm afraid of police is completely fucking beyond me

Bullshit. You act like we should all fear the police being called on us for this shit and being held for 72 hours, which is total crap.

I don't act like a dickhead either, I simply refuse. I have no need or requirement to show him anything, so I simply head on my way. if he has a problem with it, it's no skin off of my back - I'll simply ignore him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rang3find3r View Post
I have the right to tell you that you're a fucking imbecile for making a big deal about something that isn't a big deal.

all of you entitlement dumbshits probably HAPPILY take drug tests to get jobs too, and I bet you don't even think twice about that shit.

THAT is a major fucking invasion of privacy, against your constitutional rights to it, and most people don't even think twice about it. This country is fucking BACKWARDS

Yes, you do, and I'll ignore you much as I ignore the guy asking for my receipt.

I refuse drug tests as well, and where I work doesn't require one, but that's also a different situation entirely - that's a requirement for ENTRY or acceptance of a job, which is perfectly legal and fine - they can refuse entry to anyone at these stores in the same way. they cannot refuse EXIT to someone, just like a job cannot suddenly require drug tests after hire without major shit flying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leo View Post
Sigh. He is free to go when he pleases, this has already been established. My question to you is, how should you expect an employee, trained and paid to inspect receipts, react to an individual who sets off the barcode scanner while approaching an exit? You are not being harassed, accosted, or accused of theft, the doorman is simply following protocol in an effort to determine why the barcode scanner was alerted when you passed through it. In such a scenario, YOU ARE FREE TO LEAVE AT WILL, but with all things considored, why not show the man some respect and oblige his request to easily diffuse the situation instead of making it into a bigger deal than it really is.
I suspect your answer is "becase I can".



lol, I'm not making a strawman argument. My point is that this is not a civil rights issue, it's an issue of common sense and courtesy. If a store were to hold a person against his will he'd be invariably vindicated by the courts. Unlike with the patriot act and warantless wiretapping, there is no statute, precedent, law, or loophole in place that would allow for a store to wrongfully detain you, so equating such to established legislature which actively diminishes the bill of rights is invalid. Your civil rights are present to protect you from unlawful abuse, but it is not unlawful or unreasonable for a store to request proof of purchase when their security technology alerts them to an anomaly. Legally, you aren't required to comply, but a courteous and reasonable individual would take a few seconds to painlessly resolve the issue. Blowing this up into a spiel about free speech and unreasonable search and seizure is patently outrageous.

You don't get it. Most employees don't let people just leave in that situation. they do stupid things. you're talking about a totally different situation than we are, where someone IMPEDES your departure. Yes, it's because I can. It's because I was born in the fucking US of A, where I have certain rights afforded to me and I refuse to give them up. It's because I have the right to bear arms that I openly carry firearms. It's because of the right to free speech and religion that I go to church and speak out when I can, and it's because of the right to privacy that I tell people who want to examine my stuff a simple, emphatic "no".

This is a civil rights issue. It's the right to my privacy and my right to not be detained against my will. Period. No where does it say YOU or anyone else have a right to courtesy. That is my choice to extend or not.
__________________
"You always gotta question the culinary excellence of food items which propel themselves out of cans"-LilMsCanBeRite
[M]otorcycle krew - 2011 Triumph Street Triple R. (Bwah?!?)
2013 ZL1 Camaro
2007 GTI
1997 Truck thingy.
Old 05-01-2008, 01:29 PM lopoetve is offline  
Reply With Quote
#393  

lopoetve
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by leo View Post
If the tag scanner is of no consequence, what's to stop me from walking into a store, grabbing a DVD and simply walking out with it? I don't conceal the DVD, I simply walk out with it in hand. The scanner will go off, he'll stop me and ask me to see my receipt, I will refuse and walk out. As far as he knows, I didn't steal anything, and Walmart security has not been alerted to my theft because there is nothing out of the ordinary about a man picking up a DVD. Maybe the doorman didn't see me in line, but I'll just let him know that I paid for it at the electronics counter. At what point do they have a right to see proof of purchase?

They don't. they have the right to video tape you and call the police though.
__________________
"You always gotta question the culinary excellence of food items which propel themselves out of cans"-LilMsCanBeRite
[M]otorcycle krew - 2011 Triumph Street Triple R. (Bwah?!?)
2013 ZL1 Camaro
2007 GTI
1997 Truck thingy.
Old 05-01-2008, 01:30 PM lopoetve is offline  
Reply With Quote
#394  

Rang3find3r
sabercat tamer
 
Rang3find3r's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lopoetve View Post
just like a job cannot suddenly require drug tests after hire without major shit flying.

you're wrong though, because they do, ALL the fucking time
Old 05-01-2008, 02:36 PM Rang3find3r is offline  
Reply With Quote
#395  

Mr. Greg
I'm obsessed with DHermit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by leo View Post
If the tag scanner is of no consequence, what's to stop me from walking into a store, grabbing a DVD and simply walking out with it? I don't conceal the DVD, I simply walk out with it in hand. The scanner will go off, he'll stop me and ask me to see my receipt, I will refuse and walk out. As far as he knows, I didn't steal anything, and Walmart security has not been alerted to my theft because there is nothing out of the ordinary about a man picking up a DVD. Maybe the doorman didn't see me in line, but I'll just let him know that I paid for it at the electronics counter. At what point do they have a right to see proof of purchase?

They always have a right to ask to see one, we're not debating that here. The question is if they should have the right to detain you for the sole reason of refusing to comply, which, by law right now, they do not. There's more than a few idiots here who either don't know, or don't believe that.

In order to apprehend someone lawfully, a retail outlet would have to prove that the person stole, or had intention to steal, without a doubt. They do this by using camera surveillance, and security personnel in plain clothes following the individual the entire time. If they see someone conceal something under a coat, in pants, etc, then lose sight of the individual, they may not be legally allowed to detain them at the door, as the individual may of put the item back, and they would be detaining someone innocent, who could sue for kidnapping. I'm not hypothesizing with all of this, this is actually the law. I know security personnel at my old Target who lost their jobs because of an apprehension that went wrong, which led the accused to sue Target, and win.
__________________
Moose's brother.

Louis Potgieter (1951-1996) NEVER FORGET
Old 05-01-2008, 03:15 PM Mr. Greg is offline  
Reply With Quote
#396  

AbortTheFetus
 
AbortTheFetus's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Greg View Post
He could of, but it's his legal right to say no, and go on his merry way. Them not taking no for an answer is what the problem is.

it's your legal right to go sit on a broken beer bottle too.

he could have saved himself all this time and aggravation by just showing the guy at the door something in his wallet, it's not an unreasonable request, considering that shoplifting contributes to higher prices.
__________________
www.Thatgermanguyisafaggot.com
Old 05-03-2008, 09:20 PM AbortTheFetus is offline  
Reply With Quote
#397  

Corbin
 
Corbin's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Greg View Post
They always have a right to ask to see one, we're not debating that here. The question is if they should have the right to detain you for the sole reason of refusing to comply, which, by law right now, they do not. There's more than a few idiots here who either don't know, or don't believe that.

This
Old 05-03-2008, 09:35 PM Corbin is offline  
Reply With Quote
#398  

ieyeasu
 
ieyeasu's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Greg View Post
They always have a right to ask to see one, we're not debating that here. The question is if they should have the right to detain you for the sole reason of refusing to comply, which, by law right now, they do not. There's more than a few idiots here who either don't know, or don't believe that.

Hey, agreed.

I check receipts, I don't hold guys down on the pavement. That's .
__________________
www.pizzasaucerecipe.org
Old 05-03-2008, 10:32 PM ieyeasu is offline  
Reply With Quote
#399  

lopoetve
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rang3find3r View Post
you're wrong though, because they do, ALL the fucking time

Then you can leave, and they cannot force you to stay And last I checked, shit flew around here the last time a major place did that. Most have it in the contract when you join.
__________________
"You always gotta question the culinary excellence of food items which propel themselves out of cans"-LilMsCanBeRite
[M]otorcycle krew - 2011 Triumph Street Triple R. (Bwah?!?)
2013 ZL1 Camaro
2007 GTI
1997 Truck thingy.
Old 05-04-2008, 09:19 AM lopoetve is offline  
Reply With Quote
#400  

lopoetve
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbortTheFetus View Post
it's your legal right to go sit on a broken beer bottle too.

he could have saved himself all this time and aggravation by just showing the guy at the door something in his wallet, it's not an unreasonable request, considering that shoplifting contributes to higher prices.

But it is JUST a request. Nothing more. A request which I can refuse if I wish
__________________
"You always gotta question the culinary excellence of food items which propel themselves out of cans"-LilMsCanBeRite
[M]otorcycle krew - 2011 Triumph Street Triple R. (Bwah?!?)
2013 ZL1 Camaro
2007 GTI
1997 Truck thingy.
Old 05-04-2008, 09:20 AM lopoetve is offline  
Reply With Quote
#401  

Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:15 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.