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Geotpf
 
What do you think about Mike Vreeland?

He's the guy who was in a Candaian jail during 9/11/01 for credit card fraud. A month before the attacks, he gave his jailors this note:



Here's the first non-crackpot site link I could find for him (Google his name for more wacky ones, including interviews with him).

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/conspiracyth...n_printer.html

THE INDUSTRY OF CONSPIRACY
On September 11, 2001, pilotless airplanes were guided into the World Trade Center by homing beacons. It wasn't a plane that hit the Pentagon, but a missile. U.S. Air Force planes weren't scrambled to intercept the hijacked planes that morning because the White House was behind the events of that tragic day.

Incredible? Definitely. Outlandish? Absolutely. But, there are lots of people who believe that at least some parts of these stories are true.

An entire industry has sprung up about the speculation of the events of 9/11 - the most thoroughly documented day in history. There are many web sites (see Resources), conferences and best selling books devoted to the topic.

THE MIKE VREELAND CONNECTION
A month before September 11th Mike Vreeland, an American in a Lindsay, Ontario jail awaiting trial for credit card fraud, handed his guards a sheet of paper. (see the note online)

The U.S. authorities said that Vreeland had an extensive criminal record and was wanted on outstanding warrants across the border. But Vreeland claimed that it was all a cover story to disguise what he really was - an American working for the Pentagon.

He claimed that for a month before 9/11 he had tried to warn Canadian and American authorities that something terrible was about to happen. His lawyers entered the sheet of paper as evidence. On it were various words and phrases, including "World Trade Center" and "Pentagon." They insisted that it was a list of 9/11 targets that Vreeland had uncovered and been trying to warn the authorities about.

The court found no basis to his claim. Mike Vreeland jumped bail and disappeared. But on the internet, he remains a poster boy for those who believe that September 11th was planned by the American government. (see resources section for more links about Mike Vreeland)

THE BIG LIE
The most infamous conspiracy theorist of them all is Thierry Meyssan. His book "The Big Lie" was a bestseller in Europe and lays out a conspiracy theory which challenges the official version of the September 11th attack on the Pentagon. (the book site)

Meyssan claims that American Airlines Flight 77 did not hit the U.S. Defense headquarters in Washington because the size of the hole in the Pentagon was too small. (see pictures of the crash site published by Meyssan) Instead he concludes that the impact was caused by something much smaller - like a surface to air missile - that was fired by the American government itself. And the attack on the World Trade Center? Those jets were empty and controlled by radio beacons from the ground. And behind it all was George W. Bush and other U.S. officials.

CHALLENGING THE THEORIES
David Corn, a Washington Correspondent for the political weekly, "The Nation" has challenged some of these conspiracy theories in print. (read his articles)

A journalist who's written extensively about the misdeeds of U.S. intelligence, even he says it's simply too great a leap to believe that the White House could conspire to destroy the World Trade Center and fire a missile at the Pentagon and then keep it all quiet.

But his articles sparked the fury of thousands of people who take these conspiracy theories seriously.

The fifth estate found NO credible evidence in the public domain to prove the U.S. government had any specific advance knowledge of exactly what would happen on September 11, 2001.

And many conspiracy theories seem like a waste of time. They depend on questionable characters like Mike Vreeland or involve wild allegations like those of Thierry Meyssan.

But many of these theories are based, at least in part, on legitimate questions that have remained unanswered since September 11th.







Opinions? Was this guy really a US spy who had foreknowledge of the attacks? Or did he just write down a list of obvious topics and got lucky? Or what?
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Old 07-14-2004, 10:53 AM Geotpf is offline  
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möbiustrip
 
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Old 07-14-2004, 12:21 PM möbiustrip is offline  
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PopeKevinI
 
It's sort of hard to read...low-res/bad scan.

Looks like it says:

Quote:
(unintelligible)
Sears Tower
World Trade Center
White House
Pentagon?
World Bank Mont
Water supplies
Scotia Building Toronto (this probably makes more sense to people who know major landmarks up there)
Parliment Bldg Ottowa
Royal Bank Toronto or Mont
-----------------------------------------------------------
Prob they will paint me crazy and call me a liar

(something circled) But one ______ stop the ___!!!

(looks like conspiracy net scribblings...too small/grainy to read)


No comments on terror - no thank you, no comment (?)
Transfer to Ottawa, non custody. Safe house (?) or (unintelligible)

My own private apartment, my expense -- New IO (?)

C/R Coo agreement 16-97
He listed nine major landmarks, two of which were hit and a third which may have been a target.

Seeing as the WTC was a target in the past, and the Pentagon and White House are obvious targets, this hardly indicates anything beyond decent guess-work.

There's no mention of planes, nor is the note particularly sensible. That's not a warning, that's rambling lunacy. If it said "the U.S. government is conspiring to crash planes into buildings" then we might be on to something.
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Old 07-14-2004, 01:48 PM PopeKevinI is offline  
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Geotpf
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PopeKevinI
It's sort of hard to read...low-res/bad scan.

Looks like it says:



He listed nine major landmarks, two of which were hit and a third which may have been a target.

Seeing as the WTC was a target in the past, and the Pentagon and White House are obvious targets, this hardly indicates anything beyond decent guess-work.

There's no mention of planes, nor is the note particularly sensible. That's not a warning, that's rambling lunacy. If it said "the U.S. government is conspiring to crash planes into buildings" then we might be on to something.

I meant to targets and I typed topics in the first post. I'm a .

That is, I agree with you.
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Old 07-14-2004, 01:56 PM Geotpf is offline  
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PopeKevinI
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geotpf
I meant to targets and I typed topics in the first post. I'm a .

That is, I agree with you.

Yeah, you never struck me as a conspiracy freak...a hard-headed Bush-hating liberal at times, but never one with a TFH firmly glued to your head. I figured you were just throwing it out for a change of pace/amusing discussion.

And it made sense enough with "topic" instead of 'target".
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Old 07-14-2004, 02:00 PM PopeKevinI is offline  
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Why would the Bush administration go to all that trouble to blow up the WTC, presumably to incite public support for something like the Iraq war, and then not do something comparatively simple -- plant evidence of WMD to keep that support up. I'd imagine "finding" a barrel of anthrax would be easier than coordinating huge missle strikes without the word getting out at all.
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Old 07-14-2004, 05:39 PM sybil is offline  
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jubjub
TweedleDumber
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sybil
Why would the Bush administration go to all that trouble to blow up the WTC, presumably to incite public support for something like the Iraq war, and then not do something comparatively simple -- plant evidence of WMD to keep that support up. I'd imagine "finding" a barrel of anthrax would be easier than coordinating huge missle strikes without the word getting out at all.

but ... but ... but ,,, bush is such an IDIOT ... and.... and ... and (at the same time)bush is teh EVIL MASTERMIND of 9/11 !!!

this is what my good buddy Mikey told me -- so it must be true !!!
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Old 07-14-2004, 06:46 PM jubjub is offline  
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ViriiK
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Tell that to the 9/11 Commission when the -15 were launched from Langley with hundreds of commercial airliners still in the sky via a video they demonstrated..
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Old 07-14-2004, 06:49 PM ViriiK is offline  
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jubjub
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geotpf
I'm a .

a truer emoticon has never been posted.
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Old 07-14-2004, 07:08 PM jubjub is offline  
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