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Stealthmode
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Originally Posted by chuckybob View Post
your map lacks adequate cover. the amount of gameplay area available is insufficient for 32 player servers. the open area combined with large amounts of water will make this map a sniper's dream unless the enemy somehow flanks them, something which is near impossible to do on lower (DX7) hardware settings. the large body of water also creates performance problems when drawing for 31 players + hostages on full detail, something which is not an issue on other maps. the lighthouse looks like ass, and the original boat model's skin is far too low resolution, as well as the boat itself being off-scale from the rest of the world. the 3d skybox geometry resolution is a hair too low.

I dunno if that is a burn or not but damn, backing up words with words for sure!

The map does look cool though, no hate.
Old 11-29-2009, 05:56 AM Stealthmode is offline  
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MooK
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckybob View Post
your map lacks adequate cover. the amount of gameplay area available is insufficient for 32 player servers. the open area combined with large amounts of water will make this map a sniper's dream unless the enemy somehow flanks them, something which is near impossible to do on lower (DX7) hardware settings. the large body of water also creates performance problems when drawing for 31 players + hostages on full detail, something which is not an issue on other maps. the lighthouse looks like ass, and the original boat model's skin is far too low resolution, as well as the boat itself being off-scale from the rest of the world. the 3d skybox geometry resolution is a hair too low.

32 Players? You realize that most of the original CS maps were designed for 16-20 player combat, max. 8v8 or 10v10 is a common number among proper CS maps. When designing some of these maps, based upon the general limitations of the Source engine, you do need to sacrifice something for aesthetics. In most cases this becomes apparent, the amount of players in a game. Obviously, if you're creating a vast, open space, with very little detail you could easily have up to 64 players or more. However, the Source engine, and it's predecessor have always been geared towards "indoor" situations, though the Source engine has improved upon that limitation. Point being, I have very rarely seen a creative, well done map that runs well with more than 24 players, not including hostage models. I have seen even less "outdoor maps" that make use of real outdoor combat, as opposed to a collection of indoor portions disguised as a true outdoor experience. I don't particularly find that I would fancy maps that cater to that many players, it takes away from the CS essence. Is this map geared towards 24+ player combat?

I haven't checked this particular map out (and it does look fairly barren,) but I have been part of the "mapping scene" since 1.6. If he's scripted in high poly model events/triggers, or even a large amount of events/triggers, then something will need to be sacrificed for it. In this case, I can see resolution/texture quality, map geometry and player count being these sacrifices.

Large bodies of water, without being assigned detail specification has always been a performance leak. The "vastness" of open ended water has been a problem for years, I wish they would include and develop a dedicated entity to this.

I wonder if the 3D skybox model geometry was properly scaled, if it's not within proportion.

It's unfortunate that we hardly ever see well made maps made by dedicated individuals. I think that maybe we should encourage mappers instead of berrate them. If I can get my hands on the zip, I can throw it on, with permission, pack's server and we can see it's true gameplay.
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Old 11-29-2009, 08:39 AM MooK is offline  
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#17  

Cyberkill
 
not a 32 player map, 2 days work, i dont have to release it but im still trying to bspzip it
Old 11-29-2009, 10:17 AM Cyberkill is offline  
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MooK
 
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not a 32 player map, 2 days work, i dont have to release it but im still trying to bspzip it

At my speed, it takes months to come up with a good prototype for a map. I tend to give up half way through.
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:49 PM MooK is offline  
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TommyTheCat
 
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How does I get cool skins for cs?
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Old 11-29-2009, 05:27 PM TommyTheCat is offline  
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#20  

Cyberkill
 
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I feel you mook, i actually started messing with a map that i almost finished months ago just today lol
Old 11-29-2009, 09:08 PM Cyberkill is offline  
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#21  

MooK
 
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How does I get cool skins for cs?

Clandeadgoat had some pretty awesome forums.
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Old 11-29-2009, 09:53 PM MooK is offline  
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#22  

Cyberkill
 
Another map I had lying around that I decided to finish up...screens and video





Old 11-29-2009, 10:37 PM Cyberkill is offline  
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#23  

Cyberkill
 






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvV79SUc4Z4

inputs and crits please! ps no hosties placed yet..still trying to decide where i want them i have the rescue zone at the CT spawn right now
Old 11-29-2009, 10:37 PM Cyberkill is offline  
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LAZERGUNPEWPEW
 
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Originally Posted by Cyberkill View Post






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvV79SUc4Z4

inputs and crits please! ps no hosties placed yet..still trying to decide where i want them i have the rescue zone at the CT spawn right now

Things like this really bother me and make me wonder. I used to map for old CS 1.6 and just some personal mods. You not knowing where you want hosties by the time you've finished the map really makes me question the balance and thought put on the general map design.

Any of the successful CS maps were built by maintaining balance and logical map design to provide reasonable balance and allowing those who actually practiced and had some skill to excel. IE Dust_2 circa 1.6. The double doors at mid allowed for "pickers" to excel through the small crack by using quick reflex and visualizing where the enemy was once he flashed past the door. Now in Dust 2, they've gone and made the door opening half a km wide and its stupid easy for anyone with a pulse to pick people.

The angles on hallways were likely tweaked to get specific results, box and boost placement, spam spots. Bomb areas. Alot of this shit does get thought through,

Ever wonder why theres that little crack in the crates on dust 2 and it happens to line up with a cone of fire where terrorists love to camp when placing the bomb? You say you built a map in 2 days and I find it hard to believe. I mean, if you're shooting for the next FY_Iceworld then go for it. AFAIC Iceworld was part of what ruined CS and the transition from 1.6 to CSS.
Old 11-30-2009, 01:11 AM LAZERGUNPEWPEW is offline  
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#25  

chuckybob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAZERGUNPEWPEW View Post
Things like this really bother me and make me wonder. I used to map for old CS 1.6 and just some personal mods. You not knowing where you want hosties by the time you've finished the map really makes me question the balance and thought put on the general map design.

Any of the successful CS maps were built by maintaining balance and logical map design to provide reasonable balance and allowing those who actually practiced and had some skill to excel. IE Dust_2 circa 1.6. The double doors at mid allowed for "pickers" to excel through the small crack by using quick reflex and visualizing where the enemy was once he flashed past the door. Now in Dust 2, they've gone and made the door opening half a km wide and its stupid easy for anyone with a pulse to pick people.

The angles on hallways were likely tweaked to get specific results, box and boost placement, spam spots. Bomb areas. Alot of this shit does get thought through,

Ever wonder why theres that little crack in the crates on dust 2 and it happens to line up with a cone of fire where terrorists love to camp when placing the bomb? You say you built a map in 2 days and I find it hard to believe. I mean, if you're shooting for the next FY_Iceworld then go for it. AFAIC Iceworld was part of what ruined CS and the transition from 1.6 to CSS.

yo man, you high? the fact that hes releasing it and stating that he's undecided on certain things means hes testing the gameplay ballance. all those tweaks on all those maps were added AFTER testing. there isnt a mapper alive who sits down and shits out a masterpiece. also, the thing that ruined CS from 1.6 to CS:S was the change in feel and weapon dynamics. people played iceworld because its fun, and people playing your game is a good thing regardless of the circumstances.



OP: you should do some alpha brushing on them cliffs to break them up some. they also need to be less squared off. natural cliffs cannot be drawn effectively with a straightedge. you should also consider ditching the road in its current form and creating an alpha-map texture to make it more seamlessly blend in with the grass. the bridge could use a little graffiti also. the gameplay on this looks a little better, but again, you need more cover. the way it's laid out now, the CT side has a large advantage on the first route.

with the layout you have now, youre going to have large drawn areas (especially from the T spawn, and from the beach landing) which will murder framerates when too many people get there. i'd suggest offsetting the beach landing down more towards the bridge, behind a vis-blocking cliff. i assume you put nodraw brushes under the displacements to prevent over-drawing. if not, you need to. youll also need to hand-place some vis leafs on corners with hint brushes. youre going to have the same problems again with snipers, especially in the water area (snipers in it, not shooting at it). i'd strongly reccomend placing a theme building mid-way through the water there to reduce the effectiveness of snipers.

speaking of theme, your map has none. where is this? what purpose does it normally serve? what indicates this purpose? how long has this area been in use?

it seems like you may also have some invisiwalls on the bridge tunnel and the T spawn. mask them with debris or get rid of them. immersion is important and patches of black texture dont cut it anymore to define boundaries. the bridge also needs more details. if youre not sure what i mean, google "bridge" and jot down notes on their structure.

Last edited by chuckybob; 11-30-2009 at 03:34 AM..
Old 11-30-2009, 03:17 AM chuckybob is offline  
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#26  

Xpiotos
 
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Clandeadgoat had some pretty awesome forums.

Haha, that's where I hail from. The forums have gotten a little stale, and that's why i've come here.

But don't get me wrong, the modding community there is top notch (), and they're always releasing good stuff.
They know what they're doing, and most of them are definitely willing to help you get your shit straight (providing you read the rules, and posted them in the correct format).

Your map looks nice, and yes, there isn't a lot of cover, but there's always something you can work at. I hope to see you improve this map, definitely looks cool.

(Just keep a lookout for Darkstorn, he can be an asshat if he doesn't like you off the bat... )
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Old 11-30-2009, 08:32 AM Xpiotos is offline  
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MooK
 
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Originally Posted by Xpiotos View Post
Haha, that's where I hail from. The forums have gotten a little stale, and that's why i've come here.

But don't get me wrong, the modding community there is top notch (), and they're always releasing good stuff.
They know what they're doing, and most of them are definitely willing to help you get your shit straight (providing you read the rules, and posted them in the correct format).

Your map looks nice, and yes, there isn't a lot of cover, but there's always something you can work at. I hope to see you improve this map, definitely looks cool.

(Just keep a lookout for Darkstorn, he can be an asshat if he doesn't like you off the bat... )

CDG was never entirely that helpful when it came to mapping, at least for me. Their skins/models and WIPs are outstanding though. The guys who release over there, at least from 2004-2006, were the best at what they did. High quality stuff.
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Old 11-30-2009, 09:23 AM MooK is offline  
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#28  

LAZERGUNPEWPEW
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckybob View Post
yo man, you high? the fact that hes releasing it and stating that he's undecided on certain things means hes testing the gameplay ballance. all those tweaks on all those maps were added AFTER testing. there isnt a mapper alive who sits down and shits out a masterpiece. also, the thing that ruined CS from 1.6 to CS:S was the change in feel and weapon dynamics. people played iceworld because its fun, and people playing your game is a good thing regardless of the circumstances.



OP: you should do some alpha brushing on them cliffs to break them up some. they also need to be less squared off. natural cliffs cannot be drawn effectively with a straightedge. you should also consider ditching the road in its current form and creating an alpha-map texture to make it more seamlessly blend in with the grass. the bridge could use a little graffiti also. the gameplay on this looks a little better, but again, you need more cover. the way it's laid out now, the CT side has a large advantage on the first route.

with the layout you have now, youre going to have large drawn areas (especially from the T spawn, and from the beach landing) which will murder framerates when too many people get there. i'd suggest offsetting the beach landing down more towards the bridge, behind a vis-blocking cliff. i assume you put nodraw brushes under the displacements to prevent over-drawing. if not, you need to. youll also need to hand-place some vis leafs on corners with hint brushes. youre going to have the same problems again with snipers, especially in the water area (snipers in it, not shooting at it). i'd strongly reccomend placing a theme building mid-way through the water there to reduce the effectiveness of snipers.

speaking of theme, your map has none. where is this? what purpose does it normally serve? what indicates this purpose? how long has this area been in use?

it seems like you may also have some invisiwalls on the bridge tunnel and the T spawn. mask them with debris or get rid of them. immersion is important and patches of black texture dont cut it anymore to define boundaries. the bridge also needs more details. if youre not sure what i mean, google "bridge" and jot down notes on their structure.


I never really considered him treating it as a WIP. I don't know alot of people who public host a WIP map for testing inplace of private testing with other community members.
Old 11-30-2009, 11:30 AM LAZERGUNPEWPEW is offline  
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#29  

MooK
 
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I never really considered him treating it as a WIP. I don't know alot of people who public host a WIP map for testing inplace of private testing with other community members.

Uhh, public review is probably the best method of learning what people like and dislike. Have you ever played some of the custom modifications of CS:S? Surf maps are almost always works in progress. I very rarely see a complete surf map before seeing it as a beta, and some of those can be the most eccentric, interesting and imaginative maps out there.
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Old 11-30-2009, 12:28 PM MooK is offline  
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