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arthur pendragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmuck
Like every power in WW2 wasn't threatening the other side with complete and utter destruction on a daily basis

Honestly, you are pathetic in your attempts to justify every crime America has ever commited. Deep down, you probably think its OK because non-Americans are subhuman.

The problem with your fucking theory here shitlock is that the Japanese were also building an atomic bomb, they knew full well that complete and utter destruction wasn’t an idle threat. They knew exactly what complete and utter destruction meant since they were building a 25kt device themselves. There is even speculation that they tested one in the 15kt range and ignored the US ultimatum because they were holding out hope that they would have their own bomb before we could have one.


http://www.kimsoft.com/korea/jp-hung.htm

Quote:
Japanese Atomic Program (PhysicsToday) -- The Japanese atomic program was a program by the Empire of Japan to develop a genzai bakudan, an atomic bomb during World War II. The program started around the same time as the U.S. Manhattan Project. Most experts believe that the program was small, and managed neither to refine enough uranium-235 nor to breed enough plutonium needed to make a workable device, although there are indications that Japan had a more sizable program than is commonly understood. One isolated and disputed report even claims that an atomic bomb was tested and detonated on August 12, 1945 near Hungnam, North Korea, shortly after the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In any case, the surrender of Japan three days later on August 15 halted all developments before Japan could finish developing the weapon.

http://www.physicsdaily.com/physics/...atomic_program

Quote:
Disputed reports about the nuclear program in Konan in 1945
Very little is known about the size of the atomic program in Konan though it is conventionally thought to have been quite small in comparison with the successful U.S. effort. In 1946, a journalist named David Snell, working for the Atlanta Constitution, wrote a sensational story which claimed that Japan had in fact successfully developed and tested a nuclear weapon in Konan. Snell had served in the military during the war and was assigned to the 24th Criminal Investigation Detachment in Korea. During this time in Korea he interviewed "a Japanese officer, who said he was in charge of counter intelligence at the Konan project before the fall of Japan", known under the pseudonym Capt. Tsetusuo Wakabayashi.

According to Snell, the program was able to assemble a complete nuclear weapon in a cave in Konan and detonate it on August 12, 1945 on an unmanned ship nearby. Reportedly, the weapon produced a mushroom shaped cloud with a diameter of about 100 m (the first American bomb, "Trinity", had a mushroom cloud some three times the size of that), and also destroyed several ships in the test area. To the observers 20 mi (32 km) away, the bomb was brighter than the rising sun (a suspiciously common cliché about nuclear testing). Snell then claimed that the Russian Army captured Konan shortly thereafter, imprisoned the scientists and seized the remaining materials (and for some reason kept the entire thing a secret).

Even in its own time, Snell's story was viewed with suspicion. A New York Times article published the day after noted that US Army Intelligence officers found Snell's tale amusing, and both American and Japanese scientists found it to be spurious. The paper quoted an MIT scientist working for the army as having dismissed it completely: "There is no information here to justify such a story."

Mainstream historians dispute that the Japanese program ever came anywhere close to developing an atomic bomb, and cite the massive amounts of evidence that the Japanese program was small and insubstantial (compared to the dearth of evidence that it was in any way successful).

A 1985 book by Robert Wilcox repeated many of Snell's claims, and was critically panned. A review by a Department of Energy employee in the journal Military Affairs degraded it:

Journalist Wilcox' book describes the Japanese wartime atomic energy projects. This is a laudable, in that it illuminates a little-known episode; nevertheless, the work is marred by Wilcox' seeming eagerness to show that Japan created an atomic bomb. Tales of Japanese atomic explosions, one a fictional attack on Los Angeles, the other an unsubstantiated account of a post-Hiroshima test, begin the book. (Wilcox accepts the test story because the author [Snell], "was a distinguished journalist"). The tales, combined with Wilcox' failure to discuss the difficulty of translating scientific theory into into a workable bomb, obscure the actual story of the Japanese effort: uncoordinated laboratory-scale projects which took paths least likely to produce a bomb.
In the historical journal Isis, two historians of science said only of Wilcox's work that his thesis stood "on the flimsiest and most unconvincing of grounds," and surmised that the hidden agenda of such conspiracy theories was "to furnish a new exculpation for America's dropping of atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki."




While the above, at the beginning, is accurate in its discussion of how much is known about Konan, it is one-sided and biased regarding Snell and Wilcox. The forward to Wilcox’s book, Japan’s Secret War, was written by Professor Derek deSolla Price, head of Yale’s history of science department and a giant in the field, a fact that is left out of the above discussion. Price wholeheartedly endorsed it, as did other historians and reviewers. James L. Stockesbury, author of A Short History of World War II, called it “Fascinating. I had no idea the Japanese were working as seriously on an atomic bomb as the book indicates, and this has to modify our perception of one of the crucial issues of the war.” Encyclopaedia Britannica Online lists Japan's Secret War as its sole source for Japan's work on the atomic bomb (http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId=57369). There were controversial aspects of the book that were attacked. But the book was published at a time, 1985, when practically no one outside of a few select scientists knew the Japanese even had an atomic bomb project. Most thought they were solely victims of the bomb and this was used to attack America. Except for the controversial part - the possibility that Japan had moved their program to Korea and possibly gotten farther than science had known - the book accurately portrayed what had happened on the mainland predominately through interviews with Japanese who had been part of the program and formerly top secret documents that had not been seen or used by historians prior.

Whoever wrote the above, has not read Japan’s Secret War. The book does not repeat many of Snell’s claims. Snell’s article had long been buried when it was recounted at the start of Japan’s Secret War. It was only used to launch into research about what happened at Konan, which is known as Hungnam in Korean. The basis for the possibility that Konan housed an atomic project came primarily from formerly top secret US intelligence documents, like this army G-2 summary of May 1-15, 1946, written by Col. Cecil W. Nist, which can be found in the National Archives (Record Group 319, Box 739): “Of increasing interest have been recent reports about an apparent undercover research laboratory operated by the Japanese at...Hungnam. Many of the reports are from Japanese who formerly held positions in this company. And these reports, received separately, are surprisingly uniform as to content...All reports agree that research and experiments on atomic energy were being conducted in a section of the Hungnam plant...Further reports state that the actual experiments on atomic energy were conducted in Japan, and the Hungnam plant was opened for the development of the practical application of atomic energy to a bomb or other military use...It is felt that a great deal of credence should be attached to these reports...”

The book was the first to reveal the uranium oxide aboard Nazi submarine U-234 destined for Japan's project at the end of the war. A major premises in it is that there is more to be found out about what the Japanese did regarding their atomic project than has so far come to light. To be fair and accurate, these facts should be included in any discussion of disputed reports about Konan/Hungnam.
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Last edited by arthur pendragon; 05-03-2005 at 09:48 AM..
Old 05-03-2005, 09:40 AM arthur pendragon is offline  
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Carl Rove
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama
Did you shut your eyes and quickly skip down when you got to the part where they had 2 days to surrender after the first bomb was dropped and they chose not to? Looks like even a demonstration wasn't enough.

We are talking about Hiroshima not Nagasaki. Suck my fat commie cock.
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Old 05-03-2005, 10:03 AM Carl Rove is offline  
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joemama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmuck
We are talking about Hiroshima not Nagasaki. Suck my fat commie cock.
Do you really honestly believe the shit you're typing out or is your hate of America really that strong? You're just lucky that us and the Russkies got to Hitler before he could incenerate your little Island off the coast of France.
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Old 05-03-2005, 10:07 AM joemama is offline  
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Carl Rove
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama
Do you really honestly believe the shit you're typing out or is your hate of America really that strong? You're just lucky that us and the Russkies got to Hitler before he could incenerate your little Island off the coast of France.

Except for the minor fact that the invasion of Britain was cancelled indefinitely before either you or the USSR entered the war
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Old 05-03-2005, 11:00 AM Carl Rove is offline  
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Dyno
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I laugh that you idiots take the war so seriously, that you actually own some aspect of it, that you think you are something other than snot-nosed, armchair generals beating your chests and stroking your e-peens on topics over sixty years old and many governments removed.
Old 05-03-2005, 11:10 AM Dyno is offline  
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joemama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmuck
Except for the minor fact that the invasion of Britain was cancelled indefinitely before either you or the USSR entered the war
No invasion needed with atomic bombs...or did that fact escape you?
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Old 05-03-2005, 11:20 AM joemama is offline  
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arthur pendragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama
No invasion needed with atomic bombs...or did that fact escape you?


Yes it rather obviously did................
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Old 05-03-2005, 11:41 AM arthur pendragon is offline  
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ApathyEcstasy
yeah, different species of slanteye here
 
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maybe russia and the u.s. shoulda waited for germany to wipe out britain before actually moving in for the kill lawl

oh and schmuck, you're a
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Old 05-03-2005, 11:01 PM ApathyEcstasy is offline  
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Carl Rove
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama
No invasion needed with atomic bombs...or did that fact escape you?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_...energy_project

Regardless of wether the US had entered the European war, the Red Army would've been at the Fuhrerbunker long before the Nazis had a workable weapon. They had managed to drive most of the best physicists of the era out of Germany with their repressive policies, and a lot of the ones who stayed were almost certainly sabotaging the effort.
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Old 05-04-2005, 01:53 AM Carl Rove is offline  
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#174  

joemama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmuck


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_...energy_project

Regardless of wether the US had entered the European war, the Red Army would've been at the Fuhrerbunker long before the Nazis had a workable weapon. They had managed to drive most of the best physicists of the era out of Germany with their repressive policies, and a lot of the ones who stayed were almost certainly sabotaging the effort.
You're basing this on pure speculation and 60+ years after the fact to examine what did happen and what might have happened. We all know that the allies knew every little move the Nazi's made including when their scientists working on the bomb took a shit break AM I RITE? Your blind hate of everything about America is affecting your ability to put up a credible argument once again..
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Old 05-04-2005, 04:24 AM joemama is offline  
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Carl Rove
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama
You're basing this on pure speculation and 60+ years after the fact to examine what did happen and what might have happened. We all know that the allies knew every little move the Nazi's made including when their scientists working on the bomb took a shit break AM I RITE? Your blind hate of everything about America is affecting your ability to put up a credible argument once again..

I have a perfectly creidble argument. Winning the war in Europe did not depend on the entry of the US, and that is a historical fact. We beat the Nazis in the air and the Soviets beat them on the land. By the time US forces arrived it was pretty much a done deal.

Your blind nationalism is stopping you from thinking straight
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Old 05-04-2005, 05:25 AM Carl Rove is offline  
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ViriiK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmuck
I have a perfectly creidble argument. Winning the war in Europe did not depend on the entry of the US, and that is a historical fact. We beat the Nazis in the air and the Soviets beat them on the land. By the time US forces arrived it was pretty much a done deal.

Your blind nationalism is stopping you from thinking straight
Oh right.. Normandy Invasion, Sicily, Tunsia, Cobra, Bastogne/Ardennes, etc aren't of any significant importance to WWII.. Without the American Industry supplying both the Red Army and Great Britian, they would have never defeated the Nazi's..

Forget the Japanese Empire! The Americans did nothing in that. The British single-handly fought the Japanese Empire and crushed it!
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Last edited by ViriiK; 05-04-2005 at 05:33 AM..
Old 05-04-2005, 05:30 AM ViriiK is offline  
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Carl Rove
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViriiK
Oh right.. Normandy Invasion, Sicily, Tunsia, Cobra, Bastogne/Ardennes, etc aren't of any significant importance to WWII.. Without the American Industry supplying both the Red Army and Great Britian, they would have never defeated the Nazi's..

Forget the Japanese Empire! The Americans did nothing in that. The British single-handly fought the Japanese Empire and crushed it!

And without American industry supplying the Nazis, they would never have got as far as they did

Remember what your presidents grandfather did during the war fuckface?
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Old 05-04-2005, 05:35 AM Carl Rove is offline  
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ViriiK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmuck
And without American industry supplying the Nazis, they would never have got as far as they did

Remember what your presidents grandfather did during the war fuckface?
Oh right.. What did Prescott Bush do... Tell me that.. Just a bunch of conspiracy Bullshit going "OMG OMG OMG He praised the Nazi's" when in fact no such embargo existed because we were not at war with Germany before December 1941..

Without American help, the British and Russians would have never won against the Nazi's. But you're foaming at your mouth going "BLALALALA That's not true! They were destroyed when they didn't win the Battle of Britian"
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Old 05-04-2005, 05:36 AM ViriiK is offline  
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Carl Rove
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViriiK
Oh right.. What did Prescott Bush do... Tell me that.. Just a bunch of conspiracy Bullshit going "OMG OMG OMG He praised the Nazi's" when in fact no such embargo existed because we were not at war with Germany before December 1941..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/...312540,00.html

Praised? Try funding you fucking twat. And he was oing it right up to 1942.

Quote:
Without American help, the British and Russians would have never won against the Nazi's. But you're foaming at your mouth going "BLALALALA That's not true! They were destroyed when they didn't win the Battle of Britian"
No, they were prevented from taking Britain at the battle of Britain because we denied them air superirity. This is a historical fact. Operation Sealion was cancelled.

They were destroyed by their idiotic invasion of Russia. Their tactics were not effective over the huge distances they needed to cover, and the Soviets just moved their industry east to prevent it being destroyed, then counter attacked when the Nazis had overextended themselves.

Once again you prove that you entire thought process is filtered through your idiotic conviction that the US is the saviour of the entire fucking planet.
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Old 05-04-2005, 05:42 AM Carl Rove is offline  
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