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ry_goody
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vote McCain! View Post
are you fucking serious? have you ever even been to a meth house, or even in a neighborhood with a meth house? i think not, since if you had you would know that air around the place smells like drain cleaner, among other chemicals, all the time. And have you ever seen a meth house bust? they have to have guys go in there wearing hazmat suits, because all of the chemicals in the air are strong enough to strip the paint off the wall. If that isn't enough proof for you that manufacture of meth is bad for the surrounding environment, then you are either retarded, or a christian.  What's the difference anyways? 



You are a fucking retard. Quote for me, right now, where i said that meth should be legalized. Do it NOW. Oh wait, you can't because i never said anything about legalizing hard drugs as a solution.

You need to fucking learn to read before you reply to my posts, because this is the second time I have had to breakdown what i have said just so that I can rebut one of your worthless replies. I never said meth should be legal you nigerian dog fuck. I said that addicts need to be put through a treatment based system, not the traditional one.

amphetamine is already pretty much legalized, it's called adderal, ritalin and concerta
Old 06-28-2009, 11:48 PM ry_goody is offline  
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pyramid
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Indeed. As a youngster I was briefly put on Ritalin.

Selective dopamine reuptake inhibitor = increased dopamine = cocaine

The way I used to feel when my pre-timed-release morning pills kicked in was pretty much identical to what a nice fat line of coke felt like. With similar results, only they lasted longer....
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Old 07-18-2009, 05:35 AM pyramid is offline  
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I think it would be of social benefit to both legalize and regulate marijuana. The black market business would be pretty much gone and so would a lot of the crime associated with the trade. The culture surrounding the smoking of marijuana might change for the better as well if it were legal.

Alcohol is much more destructive, but it's here to stay. They tried to ban it and that was an abysmal failure. We realize that people are going to drink no matter what. It was legalized again in part to alleviate problems with crime and just accepted. I don't see why we haven't followed the same pattern with marijuana yet.

Then again, I guess it's not surprising when people still really believe that marijuana users acquire the "amotivational syndrome" and that marijuana is a gateway drug.
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Old 07-24-2009, 04:32 AM matt00926 is offline  
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Reasons Marijuana should be legal.

We need to stop criminalizing victims less crimes. We need to start applying John Stuarts Mills' Harm Principal, from On Liberty:

The object of this Essay is to assert one very simple principle, as entitled to govern absolutely the dealings of society with the individual in the way of compulsion and control, whether the means used be physical force in the form of legal penalties, or the moral coercion of public opinion. That principle is, that the sole end for which mankind are warranted, individually or collectively, in interfering with the liberty of action of any of their number, is self-protection. That the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant. He cannot rightfully be compelled to do or forbear because it will be better for him to do so, because it will make him happier, because, in the opinion of others, to do so would be wise, or even right... The only part of the conduct of anyone, for which he is amenable to society, is that which concerns others. In the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute. Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign.
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Old 08-11-2009, 09:53 PM legalrights is offline  
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Because it feels awesome.
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Old 12-29-2009, 08:30 PM Suicide King is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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Hay cool thread.

Anyone actually disagree with any of it, still?
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Old 12-29-2009, 08:55 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vote McCain! View Post
are you fucking serious? have you ever even been to a meth house, or even in a neighborhood with a meth house? i think not, since if you had you would know that air around the place smells like drain cleaner, among other chemicals, all the time. And have you ever seen a meth house bust? they have to have guys go in there wearing hazmat suits, because all of the chemicals in the air are strong enough to strip the paint off the wall. If that isn't enough proof for you that manufacture of meth is bad for the surrounding environment, then you are either retarded, or a christian.  What's the difference anyways? 



You are a fucking retard. Quote for me, right now, where i said that meth should be legalized. Do it NOW. Oh wait, you can't because i never said anything about legalizing hard drugs as a solution.

INSERT By the way Vote McCain!, reading and comprehension does not seem to be part of your skill set. I am the one saying all rec drugs should be legal. Maybe now you can understand Who is the one that needs things broken down for them to comprehend/INSERT

You need to fucking learn to read before you reply to my posts, because this is the second time I have had to breakdown what i have said just so that I can rebut one of your worthless replies. I never said meth should be legal you nigerian dog fuck. I said that addicts need to be put through a treatment based system, not the traditional one.


bing took care of your worthless post for me. He broke it down so even you could possibly comprehend it.

The problem I have is with the proliferation of bacon ...


Bu just in case you are TOO Fucking Stupid. Ever been to a major pig farm? They have to make special holding pools to keep the pig shit from contaminating the ground water and if you are downwind on a hot day you may have to go to the hospital. Now imagine making raising pigs illegal and having your local bacon eaters starting a "Bacon Lab" in a residential neighborhood. Grow a fucking brain and we wont have to laugh at your sophomoric posts.
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Last edited by TheMorlock; 12-29-2009 at 09:17 PM..
Old 12-29-2009, 09:04 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Trachei
 
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100325/...ion_california

Quote:
Calif. voters to decide whether to legalize pot

SACRAMENTO, Calif. California voters will decide whether to legalize recreational marijuana use for adults, after the secretary of state on Wednesday certified the initiative for the November ballot.

It would become the first state to legalize recreational marijuana use if the proposition is approved. Marijuana use is legal for medicinal purposes in California and 14 other states, but the drug is illegal under federal law.

Secretary of State Debra Bowen certified that the petitions seeking to place the question on the ballot had more than 433,971 valid voter signatures, the minimum number needed to qualify.

If approved, the initiative would allow those 21 years and older to possess up to one ounce of marijuana, enough to roll several marijuana cigarettes. Residents also could cultivate the plant in limited quantities.

The proposal would ban users from ingesting marijuana in public or smoking it while minors are present. It also would make it illegal to possess the drug on school grounds or drive while under its influence.

Local governments would decide whether to permit and tax marijuana sales.

"The tide has turned," said Dan Newman, a strategist with the campaign backing the measure. "The combination of the broken budget and dysfunctional cannabis laws have created the perfect storm for this initiative to pass in November."

Opponents refer to marijuana as a gateway drug, meaning its use is believed to lead young people to try other, harder drugs. They worry that legalization would persuade more people to try it, worsening the nation's drug culture.

"How can our kids say no when the adults around them are saying yes?" asked Aimee Hendle, a spokeswoman for Californians for Drug Free Youth.

Proponents of the measure say legalizing marijuana could save the state $200 million a year by reducing public safety costs and could generate tax revenue for local governments.

Stephen Gutwillig, California director for the Drug Policy Alliance, said certification of the ballot initiative marks a watershed moment in the decades-long struggle.

"Banning marijuana outright has been a profound disaster, fueling a massive, increasingly brutal underground economy, wasting billions in scarce law enforcement resources and making criminals of countless law-abiding citizens," he said.

The initiative is the second proposal to qualify for the November 2010 ballot. The other is a $11.1 billion water bond measure that was pushed by state lawmakers.
Old 03-24-2010, 11:55 PM Trachei is offline  
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On the drug problem in America: attitude and addiction

Drugs, recreational and otherwise, are a major and permanent incorporation of this country. It is a vain battle to attempt to exterminate them altogether; it is simply unrealistic. The “war on drugs” is a major failure. Should we instead approach them responsibly and with reason and thus learn how to properly coexist with them in our society, we might then be able to actually use them efficiently as the tools that they are. The focus of this issue is admittedly broad and perhaps scattered, even transient, on an individual basis. One might contend that the determining qualities are far too varied to be identified on any absolute terms, and so, bearing that in mind, I will do my best to describe objectively the contributing factors to what is, in essence, the drug problem of America.

A drug is any substance that alters bodily functions, often including components of the mind. This ranges from coffee to morphine. In order to better grasp the mindset that drug addiction entails, I will henceforth refer to drugs as those substances and activities which alter a person’s state of mind. In the case of activities like sexual intercourse or meditation where a person’s body chemistry is indeed temporarily changed by the processes involved, this is simply to imply that one or more aspect of the engagement acts as a drug, and not to say that sex and meditation are specifically drugs in and of themselves. The point to be extracted from this idea is that addictive personalities can be identified even in people who abstain from recreational drug use. For example, coffee is the world’s largest source of commerce. We tend not to think of it as a drug. Yet if we did, and treated it as one, we might quell the outstanding health risks that it causes for this country, which are far greater than any of those associated with marijuana.

It is not merely drug addiction that is the whole of our affliction. Unfortunately, some of us are simply predisposed to have addictive personalities; it is hereditary. If ones family has a history of drug use, the chances of this behavior is that much greater. There is a host of environmental factors that only make this worse, and therein lies much of the scourge. To put it simply: as a nation, we have collectively taken a faulty attitude toward drug usage. It is a natural desire of human beings to wish to alter their consciousness from time to time. This may be noted early on in childhood when one is to spin around in circles very fast to become dizzy and lightheaded. This natural urge for a different state of mind need not be repressed, certainly not condemned. Drugs are a neutral source; they have the power to do much good, and they absolutely have the power to do harm. All drugs, strong ones and weak ones, must be treated with the respect that they merit. If not, we put ourselves at risk of self-destruction. They surround us in plants, in the grocery stores and pharmacies, on the streets and in the schools; they cannot simply be made to go away. In our attempt to ban them, to punish society for choosing to use them, we have only worsened the grip that we have on them. China is overpopulated and so they decide to restrict childbirth; thus a black market was created for that. It is the same principle. People will always choose to do what they wish, one way or the other. This argument is not specifically about the backwards laws of this country, but understanding that aspect ties in completely with the wrongness of our approach. Focusing more on the destructive qualities of drugs has led to us coming to view them as evil entities, and so when we do use them, we tend to do more harm than good, often taking them to extremes. It really does not matter whether it is television or food that one chooses to abuse, the same principles always applies.

And this is precisely what public education has done to further this problem, in exactly the same way it has done nothing to help prevent high school students from catching sexually transmitted diseases. Instead of providing useful information about the safest way to go about engaging in these activities, they are painted as wrong and terrible crimes, and we are warned of the great folly we will surely encounter. What has promoting abstinence in schools done to prevent teenagers from having sex? Has it hindered the widespread destruction of STDs in the least? No, we only laugh at the idea of being abstinent, as we also used to laugh in the bleachers during a novel performance from the fine folks running the D.A.R.E programs through grades five to twelve. Our education system could do so much to alleviate these issues by simply providing unbiased, direct, useful information about drugs and the role they play in our society. Knowledge is power. We can and (I believe) eventually will train our youth on how to make wise decisions when it comes to things like drugs and sex. It is absolutely clear that this attempt in scaring people away from these activities is not effective in any way. It is costing us more in the mental and physical health of society than it is even in money, all of which are being expended at inconceivable rates. It is a futile struggle that must at some point collapse.

I do not mean to place blame wholly on the conduct of our government-orchestrated public programs. People are intelligent and must think for themselves. But the far-reaching effects of this attitude are without a doubt the major cause for society’s mass confusion when it comes to the treatment of drugs. Other factors like peer pressure and even the anxieties of everyday stress would be greatly lessened if we began to think of drugs as potential tools for improvement. Moreover, the actual quality of the drugs themselves would be improved upon if they were approached from a natural stance. That is to say, in achieving a better understanding of where drugs come from, we would learn to utilize them in their natural states, as opposed to synthesizing the main active ingredients and putting them in pills. The coca leaves from which cocaine is derived have been used tribally for thousands of years, and never were their cocaine addictions amongst those cultures.

Drugs are here to stay, and people will always find ways to abuse them. We can stop this from becoming such a widespread issue by acting reasonably and with care. This must start in schools, and gradually, the way in which pharmaceutical companies are run has to be transformed. The Earth has offered us natural tools for self-improvement. We have to begin treating them with respect before we should even consider turning a profit, or else we should not allow ourselves to use drugs at all.
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Old 04-07-2010, 06:17 PM Golf(e) is offline  
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justaddcheese
 
Good points, but it would seem that in the US it's very hard to be taken seriously any time one brings up the topic of ending the war on drugs. Usually the person/organization is considered a bunch of hippy junkies who just want to live in a hedonistic drug filled utopia and rot the minds of children.

The vast majority of people stay drug-free in their lives because drugs have harmful side effects to what they want to accomplish in life, not because they're illegal. Just look at why people stop using - because it has become detrimental to their lives, not because they're all of a sudden afraid of getting caught.
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:51 PM justaddcheese is offline  
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Golf(e)
 
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Yes, precisely. Law will never stop people from using the drugs they want, no matter how hard it tries to.

Many of the drugs we have access to are incredibly harmful, and that has everything to do with the our approach. If we understood (or even cared about) the origins of drugs and how they've been used throughout history, we could realize the right and wrong ways to use them, and the right and wrong ways to make them.

Tribes and villages in south america today, for example, will still chew on boiled coca leaves. It provides them with a burst of energy and euphoria, sometimes to help with their labor, or other times festively (ritually, and with respect).

What do we do? We synthesize the active ingredient, turn it into a powder and shove it in our noses. Its not healthy that way. Perhaps theirs a reason natural drugs develop the way they do, as part of a whole, with other ingredients that maybe do something to balance out the harmful effects of the more powerful components of the drug/plant.

Not to say that people should or should not use any drugs. Just that if and when they do, theirs a wise way to do so, and that if we collectively understood drugs better, the ones that are available would be much cleaner and safer to use.
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Old 04-07-2010, 11:52 PM Golf(e) is offline  
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TheMorlock
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I abuse Golfe Posts

Did you actually write that? It's completely coherent.

Only one wrong piece of info. Coca abuse in tribes was common. They used to keep a gord with coca paste around their waists and used it so extensively they had to come up with a counter agent to keep the paste from eating the inside of their cheeks away. Still goes on today in the andes.
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:42 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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drugs are awesome
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Old 04-08-2010, 02:25 AM tegandje is offline  
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matt00926
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justaddcheese View Post
Good points, but it would seem that in the US it's very hard to be taken seriously any time one brings up the topic of ending the war on drugs. Usually the person/organization is considered a bunch of hippy junkies who just want to live in a hedonistic drug filled utopia and rot the minds of children.

The vast majority of people stay drug-free in their lives because drugs have harmful side effects to what they want to accomplish in life, not because they're illegal. Just look at why people stop using - because it has become detrimental to their lives, not because they're all of a sudden afraid of getting caught.

One way is to re-frame the issue as a public health, safety, and/or monetary one. I am hopeful that harm-reduction models will become dominant in the next few decades as we keep digging ourselves into more holes financially in other realms.
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Old 04-08-2010, 08:45 AM matt00926 is offline  
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I think our drug restrictions are largely based on our culture of victimhood. There is no concept of personal responsibility. Cigs are giving people cancer, amphetamines are bad for you, drugs are addictive, bawwwww. People should be allowed to make whatever choices they want with their own bodies. If they want to make those choices even though some of us think they are detrimental, they should be able to. People don't need protection from the big bad drugs, they need to take responsibility for educating themselves about them and the choices that will result from taking them.
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