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kyebosh
 
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Originally Posted by Mr. Greg View Post
Well then, going way back to when you called out Morlock, he's in the right if he is talking about "public colleges" instead of just "colleges" in general then, right?
Yes indeed, if you're only talking about public colleges.
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Old 02-25-2008, 03:49 PM kyebosh is offline  
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kyebosh
 
Oh, an interesting note is that my university just allowed the police to carry guns while on foot patrol. This happened about two weeks ago. Before, the university required police to keep their guns in a lock box in the patrol car, and they needed to be given the right to use them from a superior officer.
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Old 02-25-2008, 03:54 PM kyebosh is offline  
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Escaped Gorilla Genitals
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Originally Posted by Mr. Greg View Post
Exactly. Why are you then so against them having concealed weapons on campus? If 21 year old CCW holders were getting drunk and taking their concealed weapons to where they drank, surely the risk that you say exists would show up already. Where is it? What proof do you have that it will undisputedly rise if CCW holders were allowed to carry on campus?
I don't personally care whether students are allowed to use their CCW permits on campus or not, it's just stupid to argue that they'd be effective in stopping gunmen or that that same argument could be used to justify overriding the college administrations and facultys consensus on gun control.

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Yes, because I'm totally talking about arming 14-year olds here. Sigh.
It's just to put things in perspective.



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Then why do you keep over-blowing the danger of college CCW owners being allowed to carry on campus, if your own statistics show that they are one of the least likely to have a CCW in the first place?! Jeez.
I see I did overstate the danger a bit in one post, but that wasn't really ever my main argument.



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The NIU police were on the scene of the shooting within 3 minutes. That's WITH a brand-new contingency plan put into place after Virginia Tech. By the time they had gotten there, it was all over, their accuracy and firearm handling skills and training a completely moot point, as the gunman was already dead, along with the classmates. Quit saying that better-trained police are the answer, because they can never be everywhere at once, unless you have an excess amount and station them everywhere.
They are the best option to improve security besides better psychiatric treatment and profiling for students, but that's a before the fact measure. You've presented no other option besides allowing CCW which would do little if anything to improve security.

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I love how you hate when I say things that you believe for you, because you're too afraid to say them. Affirmative Action is racist, my preferred policy on CCW on college campuses makes a certain number of students be necessary sacrifices to a gunman before police respond, etc.
It's like every point that's been made in this thread about CCW utility for stopping gunmen was never even posted.



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Yes, because a college in a rural town that brings in students of endless demographics and ways of life is so much safer than the surrounding town and area.
IIRC statistically college campuses in rural towns are about a safe a community as you can find, and towns with colleges are statistically safer than those without. There's nothing to dispute here it's just numbers, you can put in the work hunting numbers down this time.




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This is my favorite quote of your post. Just because shootings don't occur that often, statistics show that any safety caused by me having a CCW is "insignificant." You, sir, are absolutely hilarious.
Glad I could entertain.



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Clearly you aren't familiar with the Castle doctrine. Read up.
Clearly that has no connection with my point.


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I thought I ridiculed you enough to stop making baseless claims. Must I do it more?
Glad you proved me wrong....no wait, you didn't.
You've shown no evidence that the extremely small amount of the college population that has a CCW would do anything to improve the safety of anyone on campus.

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Definitely a runner up to favorite post, but the other one is just a hair more hilarious than this one.
Glad you proved me wrong....no wait, you didn't. You just keep making the claim that CCW will improve security from gunmen more than a trained and professional police force.



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So wait...we shouldn't sell guns now because they "put college students at risk?" WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE COLLEGE STUDENTS!?
Thanks, I thought it was a pretty masterful parody of every retarded point you've made in this thread.


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I never said that we shouldn't have better psychiatric care to stop whackos from shooting up schools. It's a great idea, and I hope it gets implemented. But when it DOES happen, I want to have the opportunity to defend myself, not dial 911-Dial-A-Prayer and hope their response time is in milliseconds.
That won't ever happen.

Last edited by Jim Morrison; 02-25-2008 at 05:10 PM..
Old 02-25-2008, 05:04 PM Escaped Gorilla Genitals is offline  
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In one stupid sentence, you've proven that you have no appreciation for the constitution or this country. You are an embarrassment to Americans everywhere. If you truly believe the 2nd amendment is outdated, then you should work to have the constitution amended, not to encourage the government to shit on it more than it already does.
Oh I'm sorry....sorry that everyone who supports the 2nd amendment is a douchebag who should be thrown in a concentration camp.

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Also, as Greg has pointed out, your logic is absolutely terrible. You are clearly trying to construct worthless arguments around an emotional point of view.
Actually that's not what happened at all. Try re-reading the thread a few times.
Old 02-25-2008, 05:13 PM Escaped Gorilla Genitals is offline  
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mathlete
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Oh I'm sorry....sorry that everyone who supports the 2nd amendment is a douchebag who should be thrown in a concentration camp.

Actually that's not what happened at all. Try re-reading the thread a few times.

I have little interest in reading the pages and pages of shit already posted. The bits and pieces I've read though from you are pretty worthless.
Old 02-25-2008, 05:22 PM mathlete is offline  
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cromicus
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The 2nd amendment is archaic and pointless, I don't really give a fuck if the government violates it or not.
If you think you can pick and choose what parts of the constitution should be obeyed and violated, why can't gun owners do the same (i.e. the parts about whether or not congress has any authority over them)? Would you be so surprised if they took your cue and just ignored the "pointless" gun control laws? Would you at least understand their point of view?
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Old 02-25-2008, 11:56 PM cromicus is offline  
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Oh I'm sorry....sorry that everyone who supports the 2nd amendment is a douchebag who should be thrown in a concentration camp.

Old 02-26-2008, 06:07 AM SemperFly is offline  
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Well, reading what you keep saying over and over again, I realize that you don't have a clue what I am talking about, or at least you refuse to argue what the law is vs. what it should be. Your points are all based on ideal interpretations of the bill of rights as opposed to what I am saying which is what the current legal interpretations have been. I actually completely agree with what you are saying, but I don't agree that it is what the law is right now.

you fucking pinhead. Ever hear of those nice men only PRIVATE clubs on Wall Street?

Well they were forced to let women join. Even though they were the epitome of PRIVATE invite only need a sponsor to join club.

Because you know those nice constitutional rights.

See thats called case law. It's what the law Actually is. And if thats the law for One constitutional right then it is supposed to be the same for all such rights.
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Old 02-26-2008, 10:55 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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Mr. Greg
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I don't personally care whether students are allowed to use their CCW permits on campus or not, it's just stupid to argue that they'd be effective in stopping gunmen or that that same argument could be used to justify overriding the college administrations and facultys consensus on gun control.

If it's a public campus, whatever the state decides will take precedence over what the school decides. Also, if you don't care, why are you arguing against it?

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It's just to put things in perspective.
Citing a random statistic that has nothing to do with CCW in colleges puts what in perspective, exactly?

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I see I did overstate the danger a bit in one post, but that wasn't really ever my main argument.
So you don't care if CCW owners carry on college campuses, and now you know you overstated the dangers of them carrying. Any other stupid points you have that I can debunk, because it seems I already was successful at two of them.



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They are the best option to improve security besides better psychiatric treatment and profiling for students, but that's a before the fact measure. You've presented no other option besides allowing CCW which would do little if anything to improve security.
...Yes, I have. Read the last line of what you quoted again. The only thing that will increase security to the level which will make college campuses safe is having metal detectors at all entryways to buildings, and armed guards in every hallway, classroom, and every 10-15 feet outdoors.

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It's like every point that's been made in this thread about CCW utility for stopping gunmen was never even posted.
What...do you think that a person should have to take a "gunman elimination competency course" before allowing to carry on campus?



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IIRC statistically college campuses in rural towns are about a safe a community as you can find, and towns with colleges are statistically safer than those without. There's nothing to dispute here it's just numbers, you can put in the work hunting numbers down this time.
You and your numbers.

Why does every major change for you have to be tombstone technology?

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Glad I could entertain.
Well jeez man, you're telling me that if I had a CCW, and I used it effectively to save my life, it's completely a moot point because it "happens to infrequently" to make any difference in the entire scheme of things. That's absolutely the stupidest thing you ever said, in any thread, and you've said some very stupid things here.

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Clearly that has no connection with my point.


Yes, it does, you idiot.


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Glad you proved me wrong....no wait, you didn't.
You've shown no evidence that the extremely small amount of the college population that has a CCW would do anything to improve the safety of anyone on campus.
Seeing how they affected the public at large, I would assume those statistics would carry over to college campuses, since it's the same people carrying on campus that are carrying off campus. You've shown no evidence that student CCW holders will somehow change those statistics.

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Glad you proved me wrong....no wait, you didn't. You just keep making the claim that CCW will improve security from gunmen more than a trained and professional police force.
Your quote says that you were somehow KNOW that a police officer/trained professional will ALWAYS be nearer to a shooter than a CCW holder. Do you KNOW the exact statistics and duty patrol assignments of security forces in the entire country enough that you can make a hilarious claim like that?

In addition, I never said that a student will be better at handling a situation such as that than a police officer, I'm just saying that a police officer will never be able to utilize his better skills in such a situation, since their reaction time will, with current security force placement (and lack of), never be fast enough to get there before the shootings are done. To think otherwise is laughably hilarious. Because of that, you cannot just advocate "better training" as the solution, as it will never make reaction time fast enough to stop people from being killed, unless there is a security guard in every room.

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That won't ever happen.
The response time? Of course it won't, because depending on police to solve your problems doesn't work.
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Old 02-26-2008, 12:46 PM Mr. Greg is offline  
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