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1337rider
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xayd View Post
drug companies paying doctors a commission isn't uncommon.

who are they working for?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/09/bu...in&oref=slogin



despite what you think, private health care is not optional or free either. employers don't shrug their shoulders and eat the cost of providing group policies. all employees at your company earn less, and you pay for the insurance plan(s) they've chosen for you whether you like it or not.

i find it hilarious that you sing the praises of a free market that doesn't exist. you're paying a tax to your employer for health care, the brits are paying a tax to the government for theirs. there is no difference, other than the availability on their end being better.

Nobody is saying that the current system doesn't need some changes. Like I said, if people personally selected thier policy based on critical analysis of the plan each company offers, and pays via an "allowance" or whatnot from thier company (when and only when they would have offered health benefits anyway)you would have real choice.
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Old 12-26-2007, 06:39 PM 1337rider is offline  
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mathlete
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Originally Posted by :ninja: View Post
You're quite judgmental, aren't you? Of course, you're allowed to be, since you're perfect

I hate to break it to you pookie, but unless you get cancer or require some other incredibly expensive treatment, regardless of the insurance you have, your money is going to the treatment of others. That's how insurance works. Get over it.

Or maybe you don't have insurance?
Old 12-26-2007, 06:42 PM mathlete is offline  
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1337rider
 
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I hate to break it to you pookie, but unless you get cancer or require some other incredibly expensive treatment, regardless of the insurance you have, your money is going to the treatment of others. That's how insurance works. Get over it.

Or maybe you don't have insurance?

Except I'm not being held at the point of a gun to pay into that policy.

And not really anyway. That money goes into a huge fund that ensures I have access to a certain amount in the event I do get cancer or something. I don't see that as being the same at all.
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Old 12-26-2007, 06:50 PM 1337rider is offline  
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#63  

mathlete
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Originally Posted by 1337rider View Post
Except I'm not being held at the point of a gun to pay into that policy.

And not really anyway. That money goes into a huge fund that ensures I have access to a certain amount in the event I do get cancer or something. I don't see that as being the same at all.

I didn't say it was the same, but his point as stated was silly. You on the other hand are a total joke.

Also, the insurance company doesn't keep your money in a safe somewhere just in case you need it someday. So I'm not sure how that aspect would be any different.
Old 12-26-2007, 06:56 PM mathlete is offline  
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armorshell
 
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I hate to break it to you pookie, but unless you get cancer or require some other incredibly expensive treatment, regardless of the insurance you have, your money is going to the treatment of others. That's how insurance works. Get over it.

Or maybe you don't have insurance?

Yeah, traditional indemnity insurance is a joke compared to nationalized healthcare. It's basically functionally identical except instead of paying extra for some businessman's end of the year bonus you're paying for a massive bureaucracy.

That's one of the problems with indemnity care: there's no incentive for people to try and save money. If it's completely paid for, why bother trying to reduce costs? This is why you get people using ERs as their primary care provider wasting valuable time and resources. Where's the motivation to take care of yourself if the government will do it for you?
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Old 12-26-2007, 07:46 PM armorshell is offline  
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mathlete
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Originally Posted by armorshell View Post
Yeah, traditional indemnity insurance is a joke compared to nationalized healthcare. It's basically functionally identical except instead of paying extra for some businessman's end of the year bonus you're paying for a massive bureaucracy.

That's one of the problems with indemnity care: there's no incentive for people to try and save money. If it's completely paid for, why bother trying to reduce costs? This is why you get people using ERs as their primary care provider wasting valuable time and resources. Where's the motivation to take care of yourself if the government will do it for you?

This is a good point, although in many ways it's happening already. When someone goes to the emergency room with an advanced infection that should have been caught weeks ago if only they had insurance to cover a doctor's visit, it costs significantly more.

I would think the wait at the ER combined with numerous clinics would discourage using it for minor problems. However, I don't know if this is the case or not, or what factors influence such a problem.
Old 12-26-2007, 09:15 PM mathlete is offline  
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#66  

Escaped Gorilla Genitals
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Originally Posted by Xcobita View Post
Can we just wait 20 more years an so we have more information to base our decisions and ideas for universal health care, after watching how its working for other countries. Or longer.

Why wait 20 more years? Are the last 4-5 decades not enough?
Old 12-26-2007, 09:15 PM Escaped Gorilla Genitals is offline  
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Fuckyouformakingmeregister
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None of the libertarians here see anything good/moral/noble/cool/progressive about helping other people get well?

(And I guess none of you realize that Universalized Healthcare might actually cost taxpayers less than what we have now.)
Old 12-26-2007, 09:37 PM Fuckyouformakingmeregister is offline  
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armorshell
 
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This is a good point, although in many ways it's happening already. When someone goes to the emergency room with an advanced infection that should have been caught weeks ago if only they had insurance to cover a doctor's visit, it costs significantly more.

This is a problem with the way the current system works, but going to universal health coverage to solve it is like using a steamroller to crack open a pistachio.

Remember people, this is just like the presidential race. People act as if there are only 2 choices, when in fact there are many viable possibilities that no one seems to pay much attention to.
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Old 12-26-2007, 10:53 PM armorshell is offline  
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#69  

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Originally Posted by armorshell View Post
Aren't the universal health care system within our own country enough empirical evidence for how UH would work in our country? Medicare covers less than 50 million people, represents 13% of federal budget and is $22 trillion in debt.

Sound like a great idea to extend that coverage to everyone

Nobody is talking about extending that coverage at all, most democrats are talking about scaling back Medicare and extending FEHBP as the "universal" program.
Old 12-27-2007, 12:52 AM bingstudent is offline  
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Originally Posted by Fuckyouformakingmeregister View Post
None of the libertarians here see anything good/moral/noble/cool/progressive about helping other people get well?

(And I guess none of you realize that Universalized Healthcare might actually cost taxpayers less than what we have now.)

Choice
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Old 12-27-2007, 12:53 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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bingstudent
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Why don't all the ultra-libertarian douchebags just MOVE OUT if they aren't interested in participating in civil society?
Old 12-27-2007, 01:01 AM bingstudent is offline  
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mike27
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Why don't all the ultra-libertarian douchebags just MOVE OUT if they aren't interested in participating in civil society?
apparently, your idea of 'civil society' is shooting yourself in the foot and calling it progress
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Old 12-27-2007, 01:43 AM mike27 is offline  
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#73  

deltabourne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuckyouformakingmeregister View Post
None of the libertarians here see anything good/moral/noble/cool/progressive about helping other people get well?
Yes. It's called charity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuckyouformakingmeregister View Post
(And I guess none of you realize that Universalized Healthcare might actually cost taxpayers less than what we have now.)
Explain to me how adding health care services in a nation of morbidly obese people will make my taxes go down.

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Why don't all the ultra-libertarian douchebags just MOVE OUT if they aren't interested in participating in civil society?

Why don't YOU move out if you're not interested in participating in a free society?
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Old 12-27-2007, 04:23 AM deltabourne is offline  
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Xayd
 
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apparently, your idea of 'civil society' is shooting yourself in the foot and calling it progress

apparently your definition of progress covers about 2% of the adult population.

i'd say his definition probably holds more weight than yours.

we have a democracy last time i checked. and libertarians are pro at losing elections.
Old 12-27-2007, 07:23 PM Xayd is offline  
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