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chov
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Internets LOL View Post
I'm all for that. Fucking Swedes get 100 mbit symmetrical fiber for $25/month and I'm paying $40/month for 1.5/384 DSL.

Embarq charges 24.95 for 1.5mb DSL. Who is your provider?
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Old 02-11-2008, 09:30 AM chov is offline  
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Internets LOL
 
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The policies that followed the gilded age were right to be enforced.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman_Antitrust_Act
This prevents the measures that you suggested in your post. I am not in support of repealing it.

It's irrelevant. You don't think government officials can be bought off? "We give you a few million and you look the other way while we steadily raise the prices. Free market, democracy!!!!"
Old 02-11-2008, 09:30 AM Internets LOL is offline  
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Internets LOL
 
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Embarq charges 24.95 for 1.5mb DSL. Who is your provider?

Frontier. They're the only DSL and telephone company in the area.
Old 02-11-2008, 09:31 AM Internets LOL is offline  
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AgentCheese
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It's irrelevant. You don't think government officials can be bought off? "We give you a few million and you look the other way while we steadily raise the prices. Free market, democracy!!!!"
That's no different than it is today.
Corruption is a reality that patriotic leftists and rightists both fear with all their heart.
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Old 02-11-2008, 09:32 AM AgentCheese is offline  
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llljlalslolnlll
 
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Upward redistribution of wealth in this libertarian model wont solve the unbalanced education problem. No worries though, as long as we can wack off and play wow all day, we're as free as anybody.
Old 02-11-2008, 09:34 AM llljlalslolnlll is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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Actually, it was as early as the 40s that had horrendous differentiated curriculum from state to state. It took Sputnik and the accountability movement to really push for a universal curriculum, advocated by--you guessed it--the federal government.

and I don't suppose that had anything at all to do with the rampant racism throughout the country?
Old 02-11-2008, 09:38 AM SemperFly is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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Libertarian free market advocates are easily the most retarded type I've ever seen. You want a free market? Ok, the cost per kilowatt of electricity triples overnight. Guess what, you can't live without electricity. The demand for electricity is always there, so what now.

that's only true if there's only one power company to buy from
Old 02-11-2008, 09:41 AM SemperFly is offline  
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Internets LOL
 
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that's only true if there's only one power company to buy from

In my town, there is only one.
Old 02-11-2008, 09:50 AM Internets LOL is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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In my town, there is only one.

is it deregulated in your state? what company?
Old 02-11-2008, 09:58 AM SemperFly is offline  
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Internets LOL
 
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is it deregulated in your state? what company?

There are multiple power companies in my state, but only one in my town. Penelec.
Old 02-11-2008, 10:02 AM Internets LOL is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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There are multiple power companies in my state, but only one in my town. Penelec.

yeah but I'm wondering if your state has restrictions in place to only allow one power company to service specific areas

at least your company generates its own power, I deal with ComEd :|
Old 02-11-2008, 10:15 AM SemperFly is offline  
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Point #1: No, actually, the best education does NOT come from private schools. Once again this is a public assumption, but in reality it isnt true. Private schools are plagued with problems, particularly achievement, just like public education.

Those private schools that ARE successful are successful for usually a very particular reason: they have a homogeneous student base. That base? Rich kids. It ALL comes back to economic prosperity and poverty. The real issue isnt smarter kids, it's poverty discrepancy. Private schools that charge for admission get to forcibly segregate the student demographic, and it still gets it wrong. frequently.

So wait...poor people have less of a capacity to learn than rich people?

I can definitely see you being a supporter of that racist policy of Affirmative Action now, too.
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Old 02-11-2008, 10:28 AM Mr. Greg is offline  
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So wait...poor people have less of a capacity to learn than rich people?

I can definitely see you being a supporter of that racist policy of Affirmative Action now, too.

vendetta is a smart guy, and he knows his shit better than most

we just have a fundamental difference of opinion on what's important. that's the wonder of the human animal. two perfectly rational people can have entirely conflicting viewpoints


and then you add me into the mix
Old 02-11-2008, 10:29 AM SemperFly is offline  
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HybridPyro
 
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I'm so glad you posted this.
Point #1: No, actually, the best education does NOT come from private schools. Once again this is a public assumption, but in reality it isnt true. Private schools are plagued with problems, particularly achievement, just like public education.

Those private schools that ARE successful are successful for usually a very particular reason: they have a homogeneous student base. That base? Rich kids. It ALL comes back to economic prosperity and poverty. The real issue isnt smarter kids, it's poverty discrepancy. Private schools that charge for admission get to forcibly segregate the student demographic, and it still gets it wrong. frequently.


Point #2: The US Department of Education hasn't been around long, but I never said it was. American EDUCATION has been in existence since the late 17th century. The vents of the 20th century in American education were inevitably leading towards the creation of the federal organization.

Point #3: Competition is another logical fallacy in education. It's not an effective model for performance. Education is far better suited for a cooperative, nurturing environment as public education exists as much a social and emotional instructional entity as it is an intellectual one. Students perform better when they work in a constructive, cooperative atmosphere and not when they all compete with one another. Student socio-emotional learning is just as important as the content they learn, and capitalistic competition (like merit pay) only serve to destroy the supportive system that so many students need. Teachers stop sharing information, collaboration grinds to a halt, and all of a sudden you have a cutthroat atmosphere. For kids that can't even drive.
1. You continue to say private are bad yet what is your solution to inner city schools? Private schools provide options whereas public schools run by well-meaning but ultimately failing people like yourself have failed to provide a decent education system for the most vulnerable. Private schools have been operating since colonial times and to ignore their sucesses in the same of utopian egalitarianism is foolish. The public schools which are successful are white suburban schools anyway.

2. No one really thinks that American education is going to be scrapped. But your defense of the Department of Education based on inevitability is lacking. The states should be able to modify their programs to suite more local tastes and prevent bureaucrats like yourself from imposing a top-down model of education on the entire populous.

3. Your model of socialist education has accomplished what exactly? We have a system full of teachers who, through their union, are allowed to be extremely lazy and teach for the exams which beaurocrats like you impose from the government. The point is that one monolithic system is not the proper approach to education. Flexiblity and focusing on individual students and areas is the best approach, rather than some grand federal program which promotes an unrealistic picture of how the real world works.

Yes nuturing is good for some, but it also leads to problems because it assumes that all children need the same environment. Competition is real life. If we prevent competition in gym then you get kids coming out of school thinking that life will be fair and pleasant. Well it's not. Ignoring merit pay is foolish because you assume that teachers are all super-human looking out for the children. Competition amoung college professors works great because the best scholars and teachers compete for positions, then students can choose where they go. The best system would be teachers who work on contract basis rather than be defended by the unions.

Besides that I wasn't even refering to competition amoung students and teachers, but rather amoung states which I admit should keep their education monopoly for the time being.
Old 02-11-2008, 10:31 AM HybridPyro is offline  
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HAHAHAH Nothing gets genmay as heated as a Ron Paul argument! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Hybridpyro,, Don't argue with Vendetta bro. He's a smart mofo as well as fucking huge IRL.
I am not arguing about Ron Paul, he's a racist asshat. We do however have overlapping thoughts on issues though.

Yes I'm well aware of what Vendetta looks like in a speedo. I don't think it really makes a difference, it doesn't matter if one takes care of their body or not. Bad policy implimented by the Hulk or Tiny Tim is still bad policy.

I don't think Vendetta is dumb, on the contrary, I just think he is very, very wrong in his chosen field. It's just hard to argue with someone who answers his critics by demanding they read multiple monographs in the space of an interent discussion.
Old 02-11-2008, 10:39 AM HybridPyro is offline  
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