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Incestual Intercourse
Textual Intercourse
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano
college education = bum?

appearently you haven't been to college yet. people just hang out at college for years. this is incidentally a major problem with states with free education like germany, as they're underfunded and overcrowded. or maybe international students just enjoy moving to the us and paying thousands and thousands of dollars for kicks, free education is the superior choice, and european students badmouth their education system to confuse americans.

also, perhaps you don't know this, but the government pays thousands of dollars per qualifying student in grants. I personally get 7k a year to go to college from the federal government. I further get as much federally subsidized loans as I need. if your family has need, they give you money. if your family doesn't have need, you're expected to pay. it's a remarkably fair system. hell, a lot of state schools are free if you do well enough in HS, and often state schools are great places to go to. and on top of that schools themselves give thousands and thousands to demonstrated needy students. I get 20k a year in tuition reduction, because my family cannot pay full price as demonstrated by both federal and college-specific standards. the only people who pay full price are those whose parents can afford it, but don't want to.

I suppose you could argue that the government should give more money, but then we're just arguing about what arbritrary number to write a check for. that argument would require far more information than anyone in this thread has.

as a side note, at larger schools, the reason you have to pay so much is to subsidize the graduate students. after all, all of the students I know going on to grad school get paid to go to school, although most of them have to TA. so who funds them? you do. or rather, you will, assuming you go on to college.
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Old 07-10-2004, 04:23 PM Incestual Intercourse is offline  
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Enfield
 
Government should help. Naturally the poor family cannot afford their children, or the person applying, the costs to go to uni. These high tuition rates are disrupting class mobility. The low class cannot go to uni, therefore stays poor, while the richer classes can easily go.

Not to mention that if the poor guy has to go to school, why should that person incur debt? They are already poor, it makes no sense to put them in debt when they are already in financial hardship to begin with.
The comments on scholarships are interesting, yes, but there is lots of competition for them. The average student who is unable to get that scholarship, and even those that do, should not have to fork out massive amounts of money to better themselves and their future family. If the working poor or middle class needs to go to uni to make them richer citizens, to move up in the class structure in the world, then I feel the government should either put funding into the industry to make it cheaper for citizens.
The Canadian government in Ontario has frozen tuition rates at about 5,000 dollars a year, the federal government wants to put more money into the provinces to put that number further down, to possibly 4500 dollars. I think the people of the nation should shoulder some of the costs in order to keep allowing everyone, both rich and poor to go, not on the amount of money they have but the actual merit of their grades and acedemic performance.
Old 07-10-2004, 04:57 PM Enfield is offline  
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#47  

Nano
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wren5
If you're going into a field where you can make the money back, then you should have to repay more of it. You deserve more of a legup if you plan to be something like a teacher though.

I disagree. I think that if you go into a field, and then make a lot of money, then you pay it back through taxes. If you dont go into a field where you make a lot of money, you are likely contributing something else.
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Old 07-10-2004, 06:10 PM Nano is offline  
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#48  

Nano
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Textual Intercourse
appearently you haven't been to college yet. people just hang out at college for years. this is incidentally a major problem with states with free education like germany, as they're underfunded and overcrowded. or maybe international students just enjoy moving to the us and paying thousands and thousands of dollars for kicks, free education is the superior choice, and european students badmouth their education system to confuse americans.

Ive been in college for 2 years.

Obviously there would need to be some intelligent regulations and restrictions to the programs, like a limit based on degree pursued ( since time needed varies depending on what you want a degree in ), grades would also be a good gauge. If you fail, you dont get to go again, this would stop most people that just stay in college indefinitely.

Quote:
also, perhaps you don't know this, but the government pays thousands of dollars per qualifying student in grants. I personally get 7k a year to go to college from the federal government. I further get as much federally subsidized loans as I need. if your family has need, they give you money. if your family doesn't have need, you're expected to pay. it's a remarkably fair system. hell, a lot of state schools are free if you do well enough in HS, and often state schools are great places to go to. and on top of that schools themselves give thousands and thousands to demonstrated needy students. I get 20k a year in tuition reduction, because my family cannot pay full price as demonstrated by both federal and college-specific standards. the only people who pay full price are those whose parents can afford it, but don't want to.
Yep, I know they give funding, but its hardly adequate for anyone that happens to want to go to an out of state school.

7k doesnt mean much when you've got another 25 to come up with.

Quote:
I suppose you could argue that the government should give more money, but then we're just arguing about what arbritrary number to write a check for. that argument would require far more information than anyone in this thread has.
Simple. They should cover all tuition

Even the way the "need" system works is flawed. I live with an aunt, and am 22. By my incmoe they determine me to be dependent, even though i have no financial assistance from her. Rather a pain in the ass.

Quote:
as a side note, at larger schools, the reason you have to pay so much is to subsidize the graduate students. after all, all of the students I know going on to grad school get paid to go to school, although most of them have to TA. so who funds them? you do. or rather, you will, assuming you go on to college.
Already in college, yet again.

And I'm a TA.
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Old 07-10-2004, 06:17 PM Nano is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by your doomsayer
I'm talking about school. College is pretty cheap, university is very expensive. Do you think the government should help out students with a little bit more money so they can actually consider schools they'd like to go to? For example, I'm in community college right now and would like to go one of the UC's (University of California). The problem is, if I live on campus (which I will have to do), it will be approx. $20,000 per year. Now, that's not including books. I know I can get loans, but that is major weight on my shoulders considering I won't be making a "high end" salary. I know this is a major issue in California (where I live). What do you guys think, should the federal/state government help us college/university students out just a little more.

Fuck you

If you can't qualify for a full boat scholarship at the uni of your choice get f fucking job you second rate leach
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Old 07-10-2004, 08:25 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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#50  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock
Fuck you

If you can't qualify for a full boat scholarship at the uni of your choice get f fucking job you second rate leach
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Old 07-10-2004, 08:37 PM pwnzoriator is offline  
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#51  

Wren5
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano
I disagree. I think that if you go into a field, and then make a lot of money, then you pay it back through taxes. If you dont go into a field where you make a lot of money, you are likely contributing something else.
I thought of that, and it's a pretty good idea. It's good enough to vote for at least, and I wouldn't whine if that's how it worked. But I do think it would be better to not count on that ... Even computer sci majors with bachelor's degrees can screw up and end up being janitors. Not the thing to reward.
Old 07-10-2004, 08:40 PM Wren5 is offline  
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#52  

Nuntius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enfield
The Canadian government in Ontario has frozen tuition rates at about 5,000 dollars a year, the federal government wants to put more money into the provinces to put that number further down, to possibly 4500 dollars. I think the people of the nation should shoulder some of the costs in order to keep allowing everyone, both rich and poor to go, not on the amount of money they have but the actual merit of their grades and acedemic performance.

Oh great, a price ceiling. Yeah, that works out really well. It's perfect if you want to create a massive demand, while giving producers perverse incentives to decrease supply. What a boon for "acedemia"
Old 07-10-2004, 08:59 PM Nuntius is offline  
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#53  

Nuntius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano

Yep, I know they give funding, but its hardly adequate for anyone that happens to want to go to an out of state school.

7k doesnt mean much when you've got another 25 to come up with.

No, see, they already DO give funding, to the state schools. That way you don't have to go to an out of state school. What next, should we fund out of nation schools?
Old 07-10-2004, 09:02 PM Nuntius is offline  
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pwnzoriator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuntius
Oh great, a price ceiling. Yeah, that works out really well. It's perfect if you want to create a massive demand, while giving producers perverse incentives to decrease supply. What a boon for "acedemia"
Education isn't (or shouldn't) be a market
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Old 07-10-2004, 09:08 PM pwnzoriator is offline  
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#55  

TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwnzoriator

?? I should have to pay for your school of choice ? No matter if I am making shitloads of money after having to pay my own way throug grad school?

How many years should I work to pay for Your or your friends MIT wannabee ass??


Piss off bitch
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Old 07-10-2004, 09:11 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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#56  

Nuntius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwnzoriator
Education isn't (or shouldn't) be a market


EVERYTHING is a market, and the market system is the most efficient way of allocating scarce resources, so yes, it SHOULD be a market. You think rent control helps people? Who is it helping; the homeless people, or the landlords who actively try to get their buildings condemned rather than invest in a money pit? Go pick up an economics textbook, and then maybe you'll have an idea of what you're talking about.
Old 07-10-2004, 09:25 PM Nuntius is offline  
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#57  

pwnzoriator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuntius
and the market system is the most efficient way of allocating scarce resources,
Education isn't about "allocating scare ressources".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuntius
You think rent control helps people? Who is it helping; the homeless people, or the landlords who actively try to get their buildings condemned rather than invest in a money pit? Go pick up an economics textbook, and then maybe you'll have an idea of what you're talking about.
Where's the link with education?
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Old 07-10-2004, 09:28 PM pwnzoriator is offline  
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Nuntius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwnzoriator
Education isn't about "allocating scare ressources".


Where's the link with education?

Oh, so there are an infinite number of professors, all of a sudden? And classrooms for them to teach in, let alone time for them to teach?

The link is with price ceilings
Old 07-10-2004, 09:32 PM Nuntius is offline  
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#59  

pwnzoriator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuntius
Oh, so there are an infinite number of professors, all of a sudden? And classrooms for them to teach in, let alone time for them to teach?
Of course there is limited ressources... and yes, they need to be allocated.

But that isn't what education is about. Education should be offered to everyone, even if it's not efficient. The typical capitalist market shouldn't fit... Education shouldn't be limited to a person's wealth, teachers doesn't teach for the money, etc.

I hate all you economist types who only calls for so-called "efficiency". Who cares if it isn't? If supply and demand doesn't set a price? Information should be teached to everyone...
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Old 07-10-2004, 09:37 PM pwnzoriator is offline  
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