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Zedro
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike27
But, as I have stated many times, their timing is atrocious for their cause. They had the entire world reeling at the US over this abuse scandal. These people are in fact SO good at manipulation and politics that they can brainwash ordinary citizens into dying for their radical islamist cause. Does this sound like the pack of idiots who would release a video that essentially covers their enemy's ass just as the planet finally starts to side with them?

This is all well and good, except that the people doing this don't want to win in the court of public opinion. They want to flat out kill, maim and destroy Americans and our allies. If they were trying to negotiate, this might not make sense, but all they want to do is fight and kill. By ensuring that the Americans have reason to stay and fight, they accomplish their goals. These people do not fear death nor do they fear fighting, most of them welcome it. You are trying to apply your logic to the actions of a terrorist. You completely misunderstand their objectives and, consequently, fail in your analysis of motives.
Old 05-13-2004, 07:31 PM Zedro is offline  
#196  

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DigitalChaos
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike27
Unfortunately for you, both of my parents speak Russian (they grew up in Czechoslovakia when it was mandatory) and they have verified it. Sorry.
dude.. while 90% of the conspiracy shit i post is simply to get a rise out of people... some of it truely believe. In the end even if fucking al gore released a video of GWB shooting an rpg at the whitehouse.. as long as CNN said it was fake and that gore is a commie bastard.. NOBODY would believe you.. why? cause its easier to live life without conflict
Old 05-13-2004, 07:32 PM DigitalChaos is offline  
#197  

Squid
 
1) Most people replied by asserting that the execution occured as retribution to the abuse photos that had surfaced, but you have to ask yourself - do these terrorists, who are clearly capable of brainwashing people to the point where they are willing to kill and be killed for their beliefs, really have no concept of political tact? Here they are, the whole world screaming at the US for hypocrisy and injustice over these pictures, and they perform and publish this execution right in the heat of the scandal. In other words, these masters of brainwashing and spin and deception release a video of a despicable act just as the US, their sworn enemy, is being globally grilled. Does this make sense to you?

what? this makes no sense to anyone

2) Second, I wonder what the standard issue chair is at Abu Ghraib prison?

Well how the fuck would you know? Were you stationed there? What makes you think those are even the same kind of chair? They look similar but they could be made my totally different compaines. Hell they could be different colors (know anything about digital pictures or photoshop?)

3) Is it not interesting that the wall colour at Abu Ghraib prison is identical to that of the video?

depending on the camera (very shitty one the terrorists use in the vid) the colors could be completly different. so no sale on this one.

6) Is it also not interesting that Berg did not exhibit any of the convulsions that typically accompany decapitation? http://www.ahsc.arizona.edu/uac/iacuc/rodents/avma.htm I am suggesting here that Berg was already dead when the decapitation occured (which accounts for 5). Before you go calling me crazy, please review the evidence; why did he not exhibit the convulsions that go hand in hand with decapitation (especially such an extended one)?

the link you posted is for rodents. a man is not a rat. this point is questionable tho but there were 4 people to hold the guy down AND they could have cut his spinal cord thus ending any convulsions.

7) Is it not curious that the US denies contact with Berg, and yet his friends and family insist that he told them he was being held by the US? Huh? Why?

Well this is total horseshit. http://www.nbc5.com/news/3295422/det...17&dppid=65193

8) Another tape oddity - the men SPEAK RUSSIAN for several seconds. Not only that, but they speak Arabic with Russian accents. That's right, in the final seconds of the tape, one of the men speaks in Russian. Those here who understand russian (and have the stomach to view that final seconds of the video) can verify this. Those who speak Arabic will be able to verify that these men speak Arabic in Russian accents.

more lies.

9) Finally (the physical evidence that will convince you in case you already aren't)...
You will notice, in watching the video, that 6 times, a gold ring flashes on the hand of the executioner. What is the problem? Islam completely and utterly forbids men to wear gold rings. This fanatical muslim, willing to kill in a gutwrenching manner, and be killed for his beliefs, is violating one of the clear prohibitions of his religion? Really? DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO YOU?

I already debunked the gold ring.

Conclusion?

you are full of shit.
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Old 05-13-2004, 07:32 PM Squid is offline  
#198  

MisterKinish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalChaos
fyi.. i thought you did such a good job on that post i decided to send it out in email form to a few people.... damn
Forward it to Art Bell while you're at it.
Old 05-13-2004, 07:32 PM MisterKinish is offline  
#199  

Allnighte
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike27
Unfortunately for you, both of my parents speak Russian (they grew up in Czechoslovakia when it was mandatory) and they have verified it. Sorry.
is there *any* possible way you can try to show something *without* using the authority method?
Old 05-13-2004, 07:32 PM Allnighte is offline  
#200  

zoopnazi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViriiK
Good thing idiots like you don't work for the government


They found his body with his head cut off on a fucking bridge.. Screw the conspiracy theory ..
You dipshit, there is no denying that he is dead, or that his head was cut off. That's not the point
Old 05-13-2004, 07:32 PM zoopnazi is offline  
#201  

auswipe
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike27
Unfortunately for you, both of my parents speak Russian (they grew up in Czechoslovakia when it was mandatory) and they have verified it. Sorry.

Well, that is certainly airtight as the and could never be faked.

Have I told you about my 13 inches of throbbing manhood?
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Old 05-13-2004, 07:32 PM auswipe is offline  
#202  

mike27
crt expert
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don
their cause? their cause is to be their own fucking country with no help from the US, and deffinitely not being humiliated by the US. It is pretty clear these people will do anything to not allow their people to be humiliated anymore, both by occupation and in the prisons.

Come on, you cannot be serious here.
Put yourself in their shoes.

A story has just come out about US forces systematically abusing Iraqi prisoners. The entire planet is furious at the US, and many are calling for a full pullout (mind you, I do not support this, since pulling out would plunge the area into chaos).

Do you
a) Bide your time and let the world hate the US, and insist that they pull out of your country (which you want them to leave)?
or
b) Kidnap and decapitate an American and publish the video, swaying world opinion back to the US's favour and ensuring continued occupation of Iraq?

Come on now. Common sense.
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Old 05-13-2004, 07:33 PM mike27 is offline  
#203  

ViriiK
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The Patio Chairs
http://www.twincities.com/mld/twinci...ng/8617720.htm
Posted on Mon, May. 10, 2004

America's plastic patio chair is popping up around the world

BY TIM NELSON

Pioneer Press


The Romans left their mark on the world — paved roads, famous archaeological remains, characters in three of Shakespeare's plays. The British, too, dispatched their navy, their tea and their mother tongue to every corner of the globe.

If you can say there is an American empire, its surest symbol may be one of its humblest.

Behold the plastic patio chair.

A recent photo of an American Marine, just out of the bitter battle against insurgents in Ramadi, Iraq, showed the exhausted soldier slumped in a white plastic patio chair.

In Thailand, where 15,000 Hmong refugees are waiting outside Bangkok for resettlement to the United States, there are no flush toilets, health care plans or cars in their squatters' city. But there are signs of an American future — patio chairs in every home. Five-foot stacks of them, often as not. Refugees set them out in every color and with a great flurry of seat-wiping when guests stop to talk.

They may be flimsy and cheap, but those chairs are chock full of some of the essential ingredients of America, regardless of where the plastic is actually poured into a mold.

To begin with, they're mass produced and interchangeable, products of that industrial process that Eli Whitney began with a gun factory in Connecticut in 1798 and Henry Ford perfected with the Model T assembly line in Michigan more than 100 years later.

Second, plastic chairs are cheap. Often priced at less than $5 each, they have that other key attribute of American consumer goods: They're practically disposable.

Still, those two attributes together aren't quite enough to make the plastic patio chair the molded essence of America.

Consider, by contrast, the bistro chair and the park bench, two other forms of leisure seating.

The bistro chair is practically the sina qua non of European culture, the furniture that transforms the sidewalk and boulevard into shared, habitable space — compensation for the paucity of private property from Seville to Stockholm.

The bench, on the other hand, is often not much more than landscape. You can sit on it, sure, but it's usually a public fixture immutable and unoccupied.

The plastic patio chair sits on a middle ground. Maintenance free, it's meant to be a semipermanent object you can move, but you don't have to, since it's impervious to weather. It's sometimes anonymous but too flimsy to be public property.

Most important, it is designed for that uniquely American space, the backyard patio.

The chairs are too spindly-legged to be born of the bare ground of the Third World and too faux-stylish to be camping gear or office furniture.

And you know there isn't anybody sitting down on a slab of pavers next to the smoking Weber in Paris. You could build treated-wood decks forever across the Russian steppes, but not many people living there have the time or the dough for the sliding glass door in the back of their dacha.

No, those chairs were meant to stand spiffily at the intersection of Leisure and Plenty. Right at home behind Any Garage, U.S.A.

And like anything truly American, like Coke or Visa or Big Mac, the chairs are now popping up all over the world, supplanting native habits like the proverbial "third world squat." No need to sit back on your haunches and wrap your arms around your knees when you can now afford to take a seat, no matter how poor you might be.

It's the chair that conquered the world.
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Old 05-13-2004, 07:33 PM ViriiK is offline  
#204  

mike27
crt expert
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pra3t0r
okay mikey... so..... who are the ruskies doing this for? cuz if anyone's benefitting from this it's Bush.

Money. Hence my assertion that they were Independent Russian mercenaries.
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Old 05-13-2004, 07:34 PM mike27 is offline  
#205  

ViriiK
http://military.revenanteagle.org/
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike27
Come on, you cannot be serious here.
Put yourself in their shoes.

A story has just come out about US forces systematically abusing Iraqi prisoners. The entire planet is furious at the US, and many are calling for a full pullout (mind you, I do not support this, since pulling out would plunge the area into chaos).

Do you
a) Bide your time and let the world hate the US, and insist that they pull out of your country (which you want them to leave)?
or
b) Kidnap and decapitate an American and publish the video, swaying world opinion back to the US's favour and ensuring continued occupation of Iraq?

Come on now. Common sense.
A few points should be emphasized:

* The overwhelming majority of inmates at the Abu Ghriab prison were suspected of having participated in or having knowledge of attacks against U.S. soldiers. Very few of the prisoners were common street criminals.

* The photographs of prisoners being abused were taken at a cellblock known as "The Hard Site," where the worst and most dangerous were being detained.

* To date, there's no evidence whatsoever that any of the prisoners depicted in humiliating photos suffered anything more than embarrassment.

* At least two of the abused prisoners have embarked on a whirlwind tour of media interviews. And one even says he'd like to come to live in the homeland of his "torturers," the good old USA.

* None of the photos released to the media so far show anything like what has been alleged in anti-Bush administration media reports, which have ballyhooed allegations of forcible sodomy and even murder with little evidence to back the claims up.

* The murder charges: Two allegations of murder have been reported so far. The first is apparently based on an incident detailed in the Taguba report, which chronicles a prison riot during which suspected terrorists hurled rocks at U.S. military guards.

One soldier drew his weapon and fired in what appears to be an act of self defense, killing a suspected terrorist inmate. The soldier was charged with using excessive force and was dismissed with what was described in press accounts as "a less than honorable discharge."

* The other charge of murder refers to an Iraqi detainee who reportedly died after being grilled by a CIA interrogator. No further details of this case have been made public, including what type of intelligence the suspect was believed to be withholding or whether there was any provocation.

* The Taguba report also details several prison uprisings by suspected terrorists, some of whom had obtained weapons from Iraqi guards recruited by U.S. authorities. U.S. guards were repeatedly injured in these altercations, with at least one shootout in a jail cell reported. [Under these circumstances, humiliation and intimidation tactics might have been employed to keep suspected terrorist inmates too disoriented and demoralized to mount more prison attacks]

* It's worth reminding Americans about the case of Col. Alan West, who foiled a terrorist attack against his unit by extracting critical intelligence from an Iraqi detainee by firing his weapon into the air during an interrogation. Because Col. West exercised the good judgment to bend the rules of the Geneva Convention, countless U.S. soldiers in his unit - not to mention the Iraqi detainee - are alive today.

* It's also worth reminding Americans about the circumstances of the death of CIA interrogator Johnny 'Mike' Spann, the first casualty in the U.S.'s counterattack in the war on terror. Spann was killed when al Qaida prisoners jumped him and his partner during an interrogation session in Afghanistan.

* The only rape reported in any detail so far was allegedly committed by an Iraqi jail guard at Abu Ghraib who was recruited as part of the Iraqicization of the occupation. According to NBC's Jim Miklasewski, this Iraqi guard may have raped several female prisoners and perhaps even a young male detainee.

* The Taguba report includes an allegation of sodomy with a broomstick. This, along with most of the rest of the more lurid allegations being touted as gospel by the big media, is in fact based on the account of a suspected terrorist detainee. To date, no photographs have emerged to substantiate the charge, no eyewitnesses have gone public to corroborate the charge and no U.S. soldiers have confessed to committing the crime.

Also
A lot of the report details the overcrowded conditions, the logistical problems which compounded security and many command and procedural breakdowns.
In spite of that,most of the MPs acted appropriately during many prison riots, prison escapes and when assaulted by the detainees-many of whom were " hardened criminals. "

Here's some things from the Taguba Report, that no one talks about :

(U) 9 June 03- Riot and shootings of five detainees at Camp Cropper. ... Several detainees allegedly rioted after a detainee was subdued by MPs ....
after STRIKING A GUARD in compound B of Camp Cropper. A 15-6 investigation by ...
concluded that a detainee had acted up and HIT AN MP. After being subdued,
one of the MPs took off his DCU top and flexed his muscles to the detainees,
which further escalated the riot.

The MPs were overwhelmed and the guards fired lethal rounds
to TO PROTECT THE LIFE OF THE COMPOUND MPs,
whereby 5 detainees were wounded.

(U) 12 June 03- ( Camp Cropper )Several detainees allegedly made their escape in the nighttime hours prior to 0300. Battalion search team recaptured detainee .. and detainee ..was shot and killed by a Soldier during the recapture process.
Contributing factors were overcrowding, poor lighting, and THE NATURE OF THE HARDENED CRIMINAL DETAINEES at that location.
It is of particular note that the command was informed at least 24 hours in advance of the upcoming escape attempt
and started doing amplified announcements in Arabic stating the camp rules.

The investigation pointed out that rules and guidelines were not posted in the camps in the detainees’ native languages.

13 June 03- .... At about 1600 the same day, 30-40 detainees RIOTED and PELTED THREE INTERIOR MPS WITH ROCKS.

ONE GUARD WAS INJURED and the tower guards fired lethal rounds at the rioters injuring 7 and killing 1 detainee.


(U) 24 November 03- Several detainees allegedly began to riot at about 1300 in all of the compounds at the Ganci encampment.
This resulted in the shooting deaths of 3 detainees, 9 wounded detainees,
and 9 INJURED US SOLDIERS.
investigation ...concluded that the detainees rioted in protest of their living conditions, that the riot turned violent, the use of non-lethal forc
e was ineffective, ... the use of deadly force was authorized.

24 November 03- A detainee allegedly had a pistol in his cell and around 1830 an extraction team shot him with less than lethal and lethal rounds in the process of recovering the weapon.
investigation concluded that one of the detainees in tier 1A of the Hard Site had gotten a pistol and a couple of knives from an Iraqi Guard working in the encampment.

Immediately upon receipt of this information, an ad-hoc extraction team consisting of MP and MI personnel conducted what they called a routine cell search,
which resulted IN THE SHOOTING OF AN MP
and the detainee.
Contributing factors were a corrupt Iraqi Guard,...

13 December 03- Several detainees allegedly got into a detainee-on-detainee fight around 1030 in Compound 8 of the Ganci encampment, Abu Ghraib...
the MPs used a non-lethal crowd-dispersing round to break up the fight, which was successful.

13 December 03- Several detainees allegedly got into a detainee-on-detainee fight around 1120 in Compound 2 of the Ganci encampment, Abu Ghraib.
...MPs used two non-lethal shots to disperse the crowd, which was successful.

13 December 03- Approximately 30-40 detainees allegedly got into a detainee-on-detainee fight around 1642 in Compound 3 of the Ganci encampment, Abu Ghraib compound
and the MPs used a non-lethal crowd-dispersing round to break up the fight, which was successful.

17 December 03-Several detainees allegedly ASSAULTED AN MP at 1459 inside the Ganci Encampment, Abu Ghraib (BCCF).

One of the allegations-please prepare yourselves, was that someone wrote " I'm a Rapist " on the leg of a detainee who had raped a 15 yr old.
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Old 05-13-2004, 07:34 PM ViriiK is offline  
#206  

DigitalChaos
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don
you realize his "proof" was web links to other websites speculating...
of all people i think i would recognize conspiracy links :P

but the majority of his facts only need the video, or the video and other very public pictures for reference

a few things could use some hard references but the majority is in your face and hard to debate against
Old 05-13-2004, 07:34 PM DigitalChaos is offline  
#207  

Baloneyflaps
JoJoFine
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yea about the paint thing


look at the media footages of a lot of sadaams old prisons and administration buildings.

HOLY SHIT!!!! THEY ALMOST ALL HAVE THE SAME PAINT!!!! JESUS CHRIST IRAQ IS ONE BIG BUILDING PAINTED IN THE SAME LIGHT TONE COLOR

news flash. its a fucking desert and buildings arent made of the same materials found here. lighter colors = cooler buildings in the heat, less building materials = less you can do appearence wise. have fun getting aluminum siding on a clay building
Old 05-13-2004, 07:34 PM Baloneyflaps is offline  
#208  

TheIlluminatedOne
 
"I am suggesting here that Berg was already dead when the decapitation occured"

wtf, i just watched the full 5:37 video and you can clearly see him moving his shoulders and adjusting positions so you are wrong about him already being dead.
Old 05-13-2004, 07:34 PM TheIlluminatedOne is offline  
#209  

CS Player
If by &quot;CS&quot; you mean &quot;Lineage II&quot; then I'm your man. <3 djduquet
 
well i like the response i got from my welding teacher when we asked him what his view was. he was a marine in vietnam and doesnt put up with this going on. he said if theres going to be iraqi soldiers fighting against him and they have a gun hes gunna kill them, if they are the enemy and throw their weapons at him hes gunna kill them, if they throw down their weapons and run away hell shoot em in the back and kill them. no pow's problem solved. yeah people were forced into the iraqi army during desert storm, but this is iraqi radicals opposing the american influence in iraq is it not? just thought if we went with his POV there wouldnt have been any prisoner scandle...
Old 05-13-2004, 07:35 PM CS Player is offline  
#210  

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