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Lurker
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Upgrading speakers in Mazda 3

I was thinking of picking up two pairs of these
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_113KFC6...893PS&skipvs=T for my 07 Mazda 3. I must keep the stock head unit, in the past I have always upgraded the head along with the speakers but not this time. While keeping the stock unit, I know ideally I should get an amp with some components or even an amp with these(I know the sound stage wont be perfect) but that's not in the cards for this car. I just need to do something about the stock shit, no mids or highs at all. However, I am concerned how these will react getting power from the stock head, I know it wont be perfect but anything would be better than stock.

Thoughts?
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Old 09-30-2011, 07:19 PM Lurker is offline  
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TheMorlock
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get what ever head unit you want get any speaker components you want. The only thing that matters is proper equalization for the physical layout of your car. Get a good equalizer Anyone whos says differently needs fuck off and die.
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Old 09-30-2011, 09:26 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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duraiden
 
Yeah, frankly the stock speakers with an EQ will sound better than pretty much any aftermarket speakers without it.

AudioControl was still popular the last time I built a system from scratch (admittedly a long time ago) and they have high-level inputs so you can use them without upgrading/hacking your factory deck. Note that you'll need an amplifier for any channels running through the EQ though.
Old 09-30-2011, 09:45 PM duraiden is offline  
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d114
 
Get a DSP to handle the sound from the head unit. Also can you consider getting a higher trim model HU?


also aftermarket doesnt look too bad:

fitfotos.pioneerelectronics.com/product/AVH-P4200DVD?page=4&numPerPage=48
Old 09-30-2011, 10:55 PM d114 is offline  
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grjr
 
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Like others have said your source signal is more important than the speakers. Just changing the speakers out is going to leave you disappointed.
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Old 09-30-2011, 11:23 PM grjr is offline  
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ritalinjoe
 
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Just upgrading the speakers is like hooking up a stereo to a turd.

If you are going to do it, go all the way.
Old 10-01-2011, 04:57 AM ritalinjoe is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ritalinjoe View Post
Just upgrading the speakers is like hooking up a stereo to a turd.

If you are going to do it, go all the way.

Normally I would agree 150%, but I am going to be selling the car next year so I dont want to drop a lot of time, money and effort into the stereo. Besides that the car has terrible acoustics so I wouldnt want to invest a lot even if I keep it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by d114 View Post
Get a DSP to handle the sound from the head unit. Also can you consider getting a higher trim model HU?


also aftermarket doesnt look too bad:

fitfotos.pioneerelectronics.com/product/AVH-P4200DVD?page=4&numPerPage=48

Higher trim head unit is a bose unit that requires two extra speakers and something else, so swapping that in would probably be harder and more expensive.

Most aftermarket head units cant be controlled from the steering wheel, which kind of sucks.
However, there is one that allows the steering controls to function and looks stock.
http://www.eonon.com/Car-DVD-Players...DVD/D5102.html
I also don't want to attract unnecessary attention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duraiden View Post
Yeah, frankly the stock speakers with an EQ will sound better than pretty much any aftermarket speakers without it.

AudioControl was still popular the last time I built a system from scratch (admittedly a long time ago) and they have high-level inputs so you can use them without upgrading/hacking your factory deck. Note that you'll need an amplifier for any channels running through the EQ though.

d114 and grjr said the same thing. This is the first time I am hearing about adding an EQ vs speakers and head. I was thinking since the aftermarket speakers are 3 ways, have a larger range, and probably higher build quality they would sound better. My only concern is driving them but I figured it couldnt be that bad from the stock head, unless the stock unit is really weak.
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Last edited by Lurker; 10-01-2011 at 09:40 AM..
Old 10-01-2011, 09:28 AM Lurker is offline  
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duraiden
 
Problem is going to be all the valleys and peaks in your frequency response, and putting new speakers in the same locations isn't going to fix that problem. Unless the deck has a high level of EQ control, new speakers will only sound marginally better, if at all - I've seen IASCA classes won with stock front speakers. They did have aftermarket processing/amplification, mind you.
Old 10-01-2011, 01:23 PM duraiden is offline  
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d114
 
given you don't want to lose steering wheel controls, don't want an aftermarket HU and If you're going to sell the car next year, just live with the stock sound. The 3 isn't that all too terrible, there are worse cars out there.
Old 10-01-2011, 11:29 PM d114 is offline  
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grjr
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d114 View Post
given you don't want to lose steering wheel controls, don't want an aftermarket HU and If you're going to sell the car next year, just live with the stock sound. The 3 isn't that all too terrible, there are worse cars out there.

QFT, don't waste your time/money
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Old 10-02-2011, 12:06 AM grjr is offline  
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Oh dear god.

Equalizers are for when a speaker isn't creating the frequencies you need or your listening space has ot be corrected; how the fuck are you going to compensate for this car? Do yourself a favor and ignore everyone who is recommending this. Instead of forcing mediocre speakers to spit everything out evenly with post-processing gadgets that basically color and muddy the sound, purchase some good drivers. Simplicity is key for good sound!


Now onto the actual speakers - your fronts are oval? If you want better sound get components, period. Put the tweeters in the sail panels. make sure they have real crossovers. As long as the HU has enough WPC and operates at the same resistance as the speakers you are fine. Unless you get very beefy speakers you can indeed skip the amp, or use whataver the factory one is.


Speakers are your priority; round ebats oval every time due to cone strength - less distortion at all volume levels, as well as less cone mass for the same stiffness since round is stronger. Highs are very directional so this is why you need separate tweeters, on axis, with line of sight to your ears. Mids can live happily in the door panels, as long as it isn't too far away from the tweeter. Too far away would be half the wavelength at the crossover point, but ignore that and just go for it. I promise it will work.
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Old 10-02-2011, 01:27 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
get what ever head unit you want get any speaker components you want. The only thing that matters is proper equalization for the physical layout of your car. Get a good equalizer Anyone whos says differently needs fuck off and die.

No. By your logic you can "tune" any loud speaker to produce whatever range of frequency you want, as well as give it any number of other characteristics such as transient response, or it's ability to produce separate frequencies simulataniously.

This simply is not true - drivers follow physics dictated by their motor strength, cone area, mass, stiffness, materials and methods/precision of assembly as well as quality of the crossover components.
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Old 10-02-2011, 01:33 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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duraiden
 
The speakers' environment affects their performance just as much as their T/S parameters. Speaker makers, especially those making drivers for automotive use, have to design speaker systems that take the middle road in performance so they work acceptably in a large number of installation environments - and in a speaker that are $65 a pair, there's going to be a lot of compromise.

Saying that 1 or 2dB of EQ adjustment here and there is going to color or muddy the sound is a bit out there, I think. Yes, ALL signal processing is essentially changing the weighting of the soundwave thus introducing inaccuracy, and yeah, if you add 10dB of boost at 100hz it's going to make things sound like shit, but almost any change (adding an amp, putting the speakers in an enclosure instead of infinite baffle, etc) is going to affect transient response.

But, when it comes down to it, if you add an EQ to a factory deck you'll need an amp anyway, and if you're running an amp you might as well change the deck, too, to get clean preamp level signal (and presumably more adjustment). I'd normally recommend a deck and amp first, then swap the speakers out if you can't get it to sound how you want it to, but it sounded like he didn't want to go that route. Basically, if you want it done right, everything has to come out either way, so unless you feel like pulling it back out later, you're probably better off leaving it alone. Alternately you could put a ghettoblaster in the back seat.
Old 10-02-2011, 02:48 AM duraiden is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duraiden View Post
The speakers' environment affects their performance just as much as their T/S parameters. Speaker makers, especially those making drivers for automotive use, have to design speaker systems that take the middle road in performance so they work acceptably in a large number of installation environments - and in a speaker that are $65 a pair, there's going to be a lot of compromise.

Saying that 1 or 2dB of EQ adjustment here and there is going to color or muddy the sound is a bit out there, I think. Yes, ALL signal processing is essentially changing the weighting of the soundwave thus introducing inaccuracy, and yeah, if you add 10dB of boost at 100hz it's going to make things sound like shit, but almost any change (adding an amp, putting the speakers in an enclosure instead of infinite baffle, etc) is going to affect transient response.

But, when it comes down to it, if you add an EQ to a factory deck you'll need an amp anyway, and if you're running an amp you might as well change the deck, too, to get clean preamp level signal (and presumably more adjustment). I'd normally recommend a deck and amp first, then swap the speakers out if you can't get it to sound how you want it to, but it sounded like he didn't want to go that route. Basically, if you want it done right, everything has to come out either way, so unless you feel like pulling it back out later, you're probably better off leaving it alone. Alternately you could put a ghettoblaster in the back seat.

Room correction really applies to bass more than anything else where standing waves and other interference creates peaks and dips due to their longer wavelength. You said it yourself - signal processing is changing the sound. The less shit you force the source through the better; all capacitors, resistors and inductors add their own signature to what you hear.

Personally I use a parametric EQ for my sub at home (14 cu. ft dual 12s from Fi with a 500w monoblock) - and I wouldn't waste my time with anything but Parametric EQ (band EQ is worthless). It's not needed for shorter wavelengths as long as you have good speakers.


Ps. cars are not a good listening environment anyway, no amount of EQ will ever change this. Tweeter position goes a much longer way for imaging and clarity inside a car cabin than any other modification and should be done first.
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Last edited by [H]ard|On; 10-02-2011 at 05:05 AM..
Old 10-02-2011, 04:57 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Jehannum
 
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If you're going to get rid of the car in less than a year, why bother with any of it?

Just drive stock and save the money for your next <5 year boondoggle.
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Old 10-02-2011, 06:44 AM Jehannum is offline  
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