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Biospider
 
Somehow I see hardware & hardware prices eclipsing this technology before it's out and fully functional.

edit: and yeah Ghetto, I assumed a Netflix type of thing until the whole rent/buy crap in the video. That's a dealbreaker, ladies!
Old 01-07-2010, 03:14 PM Biospider is offline  
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Sargonnas
 
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Originally Posted by Electrikfuzz050 View Post
WoW is the only game I can think of that's close to 20 gigs.

Age of Conan is a 26GB install.
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Old 01-07-2010, 03:55 PM Sargonnas is offline  
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VapoRub
 
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I dont know where I came up with "free games" from... I guess I just assumed as much because you're paying a subscription...I think I associated it with Netflix... unlimited movies for a flat fee...know what i mean.

Curious because if you stopped subscribing, all the purchased games would be useless. Considering they already get like 30-40% of game sales, I don't think they should be charging an ongoing subscription fee. Basically, they should be doing more of a netflix kind of thing and treating this like an instant rental service.
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Old 01-07-2010, 04:18 PM VapoRub is offline  
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theNoid
 
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Curious because if you stopped subscribing, all the purchased games would be useless. Considering they already get like 30-40% of game sales, I don't think they should be charging an ongoing subscription fee. Basically, they should be doing more of a netflix kind of thing and treating this like an instant rental service.

At this point, I think that is very possible. They haven't outlined the final details for their fees, but my guess is there will be a few options. Hopefully a la carte is one.
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Old 01-09-2010, 08:06 PM theNoid is offline  
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37731
 
Small scale, niche product at best. Let's consider the following:

From Wikipedia, regarding Modern Warfare 2: "Upon its release, the game sold approximately 4.7 million copies worldwide in 24 hours." If every person who bought that game used the 1.5Mbps SD feed, that ends up being a possible 6.7Tbps coming out of a handful of data centers. And that's just one game.

Now think about having millions of copies of graphically intense games running constantly, on all these leased servers they're going to have, that are also being upgraded to play the latest and greatest and newest games out there. So you have these gigantic server farms, somebody has to man them - handle bad equipment and all that. How many people are you going to need to staff this facility when you have more computers than Google?

Another thing he didn't mention is where the cost of the servers is going. If you're leasing them short term to play these very high end games (like Crysis), the costs would be exorbitant. That's going to come out of somebody's pocket sooner or later.

At the small scale, sure, I bet it sounds really cool and it works fairly well. But consider what it would be like to scale it to tens of millions of people in the United States alone. Consider the size of the datacenter, the amount of power, the cooling, the network, the staff. It's ridiculous, and it's complete .
Old 01-10-2010, 12:05 AM 37731 is offline  
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fieroloki
 
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:59 AM fieroloki is offline  
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#96  

theNoid
 
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Originally Posted by 37731 View Post
Small scale, niche product at best. Let's consider the following:

From Wikipedia, regarding Modern Warfare 2: "Upon its release, the game sold approximately 4.7 million copies worldwide in 24 hours." If every person who bought that game used the 1.5Mbps SD feed, that ends up being a possible 6.7Tbps coming out of a handful of data centers. And that's just one game.

Now think about having millions of copies of graphically intense games running constantly, on all these leased servers they're going to have, that are also being upgraded to play the latest and greatest and newest games out there. So you have these gigantic server farms, somebody has to man them - handle bad equipment and all that. How many people are you going to need to staff this facility when you have more computers than Google?

Another thing he didn't mention is where the cost of the servers is going. If you're leasing them short term to play these very high end games (like Crysis), the costs would be exorbitant. That's going to come out of somebody's pocket sooner or later.

At the small scale, sure, I bet it sounds really cool and it works fairly well. But consider what it would be like to scale it to tens of millions of people in the United States alone. Consider the size of the datacenter, the amount of power, the cooling, the network, the staff. It's ridiculous, and it's complete .

I can answer most of this because this is what I do for a living.

1. Regarding large blocks of throughput to their data centers, this is a very simple problem to overcome. Scale. As your business needs grow, you grow the business.. this isn't very difficult to do believe me, I build out data centers. The biggest hurdle is the money, if OnLive has the cash to grow, growth is not a challenge.

2. Pearlman said they have no plans on 'upgrading' existing hardware, they will be leasing all of their server infrastructure on a 6 month cycle. Its a self sustaining ecosystem that keeps itself up to date with the latest trends. I know, because my company leases all of our data center infrastructure and it has far more benefits than cons.

3. Staff? Absolutely OnLive will need to staff engineers to handle the upgrade process. Make no mistake though that most of their hardware will be virtualized because more than likely most of the games being streamed will be less demanding and not require dedicated GPUs. Ultimately, they will have to streamline a process for keeping their sites up to date. My company for instance, my team is 5 system engineers strong. We manage 2 extremely large data centers in 2 states, along with over 60 large offices nationally. The 5 of us, can do the work of a team of 30 because of how well tuned we are. In 2009 we upgraded 34 offices local infrastructure in addition to data center support and managing day to day tasks + all other projects.

4. The cost of the leases will not be passed to customers because they will be leasing in such large numbers they will be getting such a large discount. The cost of leasing grows along side the customer demand so they balance themselves.

5. Lastly its a growing technology, remember when Steam launch everyone said it would fail miserably, now look where it is today. People said that it would take far too much bandwith and in hardware to support a service like what Steam was aiming for. Steam launched and was buggy as shit for quite awhile but after time, Valve dialed in procedures. Ultimately, this technology isn't even far out there .. shit I use it daily in my Citrix farms. Pearlman and his crew are some damn smart dudes so I wouldn't could this down.

I will agree that this will start small(er) though. They announced mobile device support, and I think we'll really see it take off there first, then slowly see the pc market slowly transition. However, whats to say Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo decide to take the cloud route in the future? Perhaps just to test the water at first, but slowly migrate their entire system to be in house? I would argue this has already started with services like Live, and PSN allowing you to download digital games.

Digital Downloads are the future, but even more efficient is streaming altogether. Do not count this technology out.
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Last edited by theNoid; 01-10-2010 at 09:45 AM..
Old 01-10-2010, 09:38 AM theNoid is offline  
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#97  

SKYY
 
I thought we concluded that streaming was NOT more efficient.

Bah, nevermind, this is stupid as hell.
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Old 01-10-2010, 10:01 AM SKYY is offline  
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theNoid
 
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Originally Posted by SKYY View Post
I thought we concluded that streaming was NOT more efficient.

Bah, nevermind, this is stupid as hell.

When you say efficient are you talking about tech wise or business wise? Because I was talking about both combined.
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Old 01-10-2010, 12:46 PM theNoid is offline  
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37731
 
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I can answer most of this because this is what I do for a living.

You're a shill for hire?
Old 01-10-2010, 07:37 PM 37731 is offline  
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#100  

chuckybob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theNoid View Post
I can answer most of this because this is what I do for a living.

1. Regarding large blocks of throughput to their data centers, this is a very simple problem to overcome. Scale. As your business needs grow, you grow the business.. this isn't very difficult to do believe me, I build out data centers. The biggest hurdle is the money, if OnLive has the cash to grow, growth is not a challenge.

2. Pearlman said they have no plans on 'upgrading' existing hardware, they will be leasing all of their server infrastructure on a 6 month cycle. Its a self sustaining ecosystem that keeps itself up to date with the latest trends. I know, because my company leases all of our data center infrastructure and it has far more benefits than cons.

3. Staff? Absolutely OnLive will need to staff engineers to handle the upgrade process. Make no mistake though that most of their hardware will be virtualized because more than likely most of the games being streamed will be less demanding and not require dedicated GPUs. Ultimately, they will have to streamline a process for keeping their sites up to date. My company for instance, my team is 5 system engineers strong. We manage 2 extremely large data centers in 2 states, along with over 60 large offices nationally. The 5 of us, can do the work of a team of 30 because of how well tuned we are. In 2009 we upgraded 34 offices local infrastructure in addition to data center support and managing day to day tasks + all other projects.

4. The cost of the leases will not be passed to customers because they will be leasing in such large numbers they will be getting such a large discount. The cost of leasing grows along side the customer demand so they balance themselves.

5. Lastly its a growing technology, remember when Steam launch everyone said it would fail miserably, now look where it is today. People said that it would take far too much bandwith and in hardware to support a service like what Steam was aiming for. Steam launched and was buggy as shit for quite awhile but after time, Valve dialed in procedures. Ultimately, this technology isn't even far out there .. shit I use it daily in my Citrix farms. Pearlman and his crew are some damn smart dudes so I wouldn't could this down.

I will agree that this will start small(er) though. They announced mobile device support, and I think we'll really see it take off there first, then slowly see the pc market slowly transition. However, whats to say Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo decide to take the cloud route in the future? Perhaps just to test the water at first, but slowly migrate their entire system to be in house? I would argue this has already started with services like Live, and PSN allowing you to download digital games.

Digital Downloads are the future, but even more efficient is streaming altogether. Do not count this technology out.

cliffs of post: OnLive will fail as hard as Netflix has
Old 01-10-2010, 08:05 PM chuckybob is offline  
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#101  

Sargonnas
 
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cliffs of post: OnLive will fail as hard as Netflix has

Netflix has failed? All Ive seen are a bunch of Blockbusters and Hollywood Videos closing shop.. doesnt seem like failure to me.
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Old 01-10-2010, 09:10 PM Sargonnas is offline  
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#102  

chuckybob
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Originally Posted by Sargonnas View Post
Netflix has failed? All Ive seen are a bunch of Blockbusters and Hollywood Videos closing shop.. doesnt seem like failure to me.

thats the point
Old 01-10-2010, 09:35 PM chuckybob is offline  
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theNoid
 
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Originally Posted by Sargonnas View Post
Netflix has failed? All Ive seen are a bunch of Blockbusters and Hollywood Videos closing shop.. doesnt seem like failure to me.

I see what you did there, lol. But honestly in the long run you're probably right. Stores like Gamestop are the walking dead.

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Originally Posted by 37731 View Post
You're a shill for hire?

No Systems Engineer and I manage/rollout large Citrix farms.
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:26 AM theNoid is offline  
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f00ker
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cliffs of post: OnLive will fail as hard as Netflix has

Netflix is "meh" for streaming.

I enjoy it, but at times it's a pain in the ass. Videos occasionally become "temporarily unavailable" while watching, or the framerate is low and stuttery. Overall it works, but playing games like this...not on current networks
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:36 AM f00ker is offline  
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