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TheMorlock
Contrary to my previous title I never fucked Inf's mother
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmuck
Like I said, your flag-waving retard blinkers will not let you see any alternative to the US being the most holy nation to ever grace the planet, so I gave up trying to convince you.

None of you ACTUALLY READ what I say. Seriously, go back and read it all. You might learn something.

Like I said you are an ignorant shitstain

Quote:
This book explores the struggle among Japan�s leaders at the close of World War II. It covers the drama that unfolded in Tokyo between August 6th, the day of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima, and August 14th, the day of final surrender. It shows how Japan�s decision to surrender came about, with Emperor Hirohito and Admiral Suzuki as the main characters. Japan�s army extremists favored �80 million deaths of honor� rather than surrender, and moderates argued for one great battle on the beaches to make surrender on terms a more viable option. Hirohito overruled all, however, and decided to end the bloodshed and suffering of his people. Brooks examines the complexity of Japan�s regime and explains the dynamics of its leadership in the final days of World War II. Fumihiko Togo, son of Foreign Minister Togo, writes a foreword explaining the surrender, and endorsing the research.
http://alsos.wlu.edu/information.asp?id2=368&past=1

Keep pulling shit out of your ass shitstain. It's fun to watch. It's like watching the monkeys at the zoo playing with their own shit.


http://www.childrenofthemanhattanpro.../CG/CG_09B.htm
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Last edited by TheMorlock; 05-09-2005 at 08:36 AM..
Old 05-09-2005, 08:32 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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Carl Rove
Schmuck
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http://www.doug-long.com/quotes.htm

Educate yourself, morons.

The Japanese had wanted to surrender and keep their emporer. The US refused this condition, dropped the bombs, and then accepted Japanese surrender and allowed them to keep the emporer anyway. Several people in the above link make this absolutely clear.

Of course, I don't expect you to accept this because you're all a bunch of nationalistic fucktards who can't accept your country can ever have done anything wrong. I don't really care whether you believe me or not though.

It was silly of me to suppose I could actually have a discussion here, without it resorting to the canned flames of people with IQs the same as their shoe sizes.
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Old 05-09-2005, 08:45 AM Carl Rove is offline  
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TheMorlock
Contrary to my previous title I never fucked Inf's mother
 
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Hey Shitstain. What Japan wanted does not matter.
1:They don't get to set surrender terms. They LOST
2: You have got to be kidding. The emperor was nearly powerless, the military was running the country as they saw fit. Untill it was shown by the Second A-bomb that they were as foolish as you. It wasn't the Emperor that was refusing to surrender.
3:You are a clueless shitstain.
4: See 3
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Old 05-09-2005, 09:00 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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arthur pendragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmuck
http://www.doug-long.com/quotes.htm

Educate yourself, morons.

The Japanese had wanted to surrender and keep their emporer. The US refused this condition, dropped the bombs, and then accepted Japanese surrender and allowed them to keep the emporer anyway. Several people in the above link make this absolutely clear.

Of course, I don't expect you to accept this because you're all a bunch of nationalistic fucktards who can't accept your country can ever have done anything wrong. I don't really care whether you believe me or not though.

It was silly of me to suppose I could actually have a discussion here, without it resorting to the canned flames of people with IQs the same as their shoe sizes.

Since you are obviously too stupid to know when to keep your pie-hole shut.......

[QUOTE]The problem with your fucking theory here shitlock is that the Japanese were also building an atomic bomb, they knew full well that complete and utter destruction wasn’t an idle threat. They knew exactly what complete and utter destruction meant since they were building a 25kt device themselves. There is even speculation that they tested one in the 15kt range and ignored the US ultimatum because they were holding out hope that they would have their own bomb before we could have one.


http://www.kimsoft.com/korea/jp-hung.htm

Quote:
Japanese Atomic Program (PhysicsToday) -- The Japanese atomic program was a program by the Empire of Japan to develop a genzai bakudan, an atomic bomb during World War II. The program started around the same time as the U.S. Manhattan Project. Most experts believe that the program was small, and managed neither to refine enough uranium-235 nor to breed enough plutonium needed to make a workable device, although there are indications that Japan had a more sizable program than is commonly understood. One isolated and disputed report even claims that an atomic bomb was tested and detonated on August 12, 1945 near Hungnam, North Korea, shortly after the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In any case, the surrender of Japan three days later on August 15 halted all developments before Japan could finish developing the weapon.

http://www.physicsdaily.com/physics/...atomic_program

Quote:
Disputed reports about the nuclear program in Konan in 1945
Very little is known about the size of the atomic program in Konan though it is conventionally thought to have been quite small in comparison with the successful U.S. effort. In 1946, a journalist named David Snell, working for the Atlanta Constitution, wrote a sensational story which claimed that Japan had in fact successfully developed and tested a nuclear weapon in Konan. Snell had served in the military during the war and was assigned to the 24th Criminal Investigation Detachment in Korea. During this time in Korea he interviewed "a Japanese officer, who said he was in charge of counter intelligence at the Konan project before the fall of Japan", known under the pseudonym Capt. Tsetusuo Wakabayashi.

According to Snell, the program was able to assemble a complete nuclear weapon in a cave in Konan and detonate it on August 12, 1945 on an unmanned ship nearby. Reportedly, the weapon produced a mushroom shaped cloud with a diameter of about 100 m (the first American bomb, "Trinity", had a mushroom cloud some three times the size of that), and also destroyed several ships in the test area. To the observers 20 mi (32 km) away, the bomb was brighter than the rising sun (a suspiciously common cliché about nuclear testing). Snell then claimed that the Russian Army captured Konan shortly thereafter, imprisoned the scientists and seized the remaining materials (and for some reason kept the entire thing a secret).

Even in its own time, Snell's story was viewed with suspicion. A New York Times article published the day after noted that US Army Intelligence officers found Snell's tale amusing, and both American and Japanese scientists found it to be spurious. The paper quoted an MIT scientist working for the army as having dismissed it completely: "There is no information here to justify such a story."

Mainstream historians dispute that the Japanese program ever came anywhere close to developing an atomic bomb, and cite the massive amounts of evidence that the Japanese program was small and insubstantial (compared to the dearth of evidence that it was in any way successful).

A 1985 book by Robert Wilcox repeated many of Snell's claims, and was critically panned. A review by a Department of Energy employee in the journal Military Affairs degraded it:

Journalist Wilcox' book describes the Japanese wartime atomic energy projects. This is a laudable, in that it illuminates a little-known episode; nevertheless, the work is marred by Wilcox' seeming eagerness to show that Japan created an atomic bomb. Tales of Japanese atomic explosions, one a fictional attack on Los Angeles, the other an unsubstantiated account of a post-Hiroshima test, begin the book. (Wilcox accepts the test story because the author [Snell], "was a distinguished journalist"). The tales, combined with Wilcox' failure to discuss the difficulty of translating scientific theory into into a workable bomb, obscure the actual story of the Japanese effort: uncoordinated laboratory-scale projects which took paths least likely to produce a bomb.
In the historical journal Isis, two historians of science said only of Wilcox's work that his thesis stood "on the flimsiest and most unconvincing of grounds," and surmised that the hidden agenda of such conspiracy theories was "to furnish a new exculpation for America's dropping of atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki."




While the above, at the beginning, is accurate in its discussion of how much is known about Konan, it is one-sided and biased regarding Snell and Wilcox. The forward to Wilcox’s book, Japan’s Secret War, was written by Professor Derek deSolla Price, head of Yale’s history of science department and a giant in the field, a fact that is left out of the above discussion. Price wholeheartedly endorsed it, as did other historians and reviewers. James L. Stockesbury, author of A Short History of World War II, called it “Fascinating. I had no idea the Japanese were working as seriously on an atomic bomb as the book indicates, and this has to modify our perception of one of the crucial issues of the war.” Encyclopaedia Britannica Online lists Japan's Secret War as its sole source for Japan's work on the atomic bomb (http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId=57369). There were controversial aspects of the book that were attacked. But the book was published at a time, 1985, when practically no one outside of a few select scientists knew the Japanese even had an atomic bomb project. Most thought they were solely victims of the bomb and this was used to attack America. Except for the controversial part - the possibility that Japan had moved their program to Korea and possibly gotten farther than science had known - the book accurately portrayed what had happened on the mainland predominately through interviews with Japanese who had been part of the program and formerly top secret documents that had not been seen or used by historians prior.

Whoever wrote the above, has not read Japan’s Secret War. The book does not repeat many of Snell’s claims. Snell’s article had long been buried when it was recounted at the start of Japan’s Secret War. It was only used to launch into research about what happened at Konan, which is known as Hungnam in Korean. The basis for the possibility that Konan housed an atomic project came primarily from formerly top secret US intelligence documents, like this army G-2 summary of May 1-15, 1946, written by Col. Cecil W. Nist, which can be found in the National Archives (Record Group 319, Box 739): “Of increasing interest have been recent reports about an apparent undercover research laboratory operated by the Japanese at...Hungnam. Many of the reports are from Japanese who formerly held positions in this company. And these reports, received separately, are surprisingly uniform as to content...All reports agree that research and experiments on atomic energy were being conducted in a section of the Hungnam plant...Further reports state that the actual experiments on atomic energy were conducted in Japan, and the Hungnam plant was opened for the development of the practical application of atomic energy to a bomb or other military use...It is felt that a great deal of credence should be attached to these reports...”

The book was the first to reveal the uranium oxide aboard Nazi submarine U-234 destined for Japan's project at the end of the war. A major premises in it is that there is more to be found out about what the Japanese did regarding their atomic project than has so far come to light. To be fair and accurate, these facts should be included in any discussion of disputed reports about Konan/Hungnam.
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Old 05-09-2005, 09:04 AM arthur pendragon is offline  
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#274  

joemama
Watch Toomer burn those cowboys. How bout them cowboys?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmuck
http://www.doug-long.com/quotes.htm

Educate yourself, morons.

The Japanese had wanted to surrender and keep their emporer. The US refused this condition, dropped the bombs, and then accepted Japanese surrender and allowed them to keep the emporer anyway. Several people in the above link make this absolutely clear.

Of course, I don't expect you to accept this because you're all a bunch of nationalistic fucktards who can't accept your country can ever have done anything wrong. I don't really care whether you believe me or not though.

It was silly of me to suppose I could actually have a discussion here, without it resorting to the canned flames of people with IQs the same as their shoe sizes.
We HAVE educated ourselves....which is why we're wondering where you are getting this shit from. This has nothing to do with flag waving or anything else btw. Have you noticed you are not getting any backup even from the most rabid America haters in the pit? This should tell you something..

edit- who the fuck is Doug Long...one of your alter egos?
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Last edited by joemama; 05-09-2005 at 09:32 AM..
Old 05-09-2005, 09:29 AM joemama is online now  
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acknot
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano
Nothing.

Ever.

Including japan.
Old 05-09-2005, 10:17 AM acknot is offline  
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Carl Rove
Schmuck
Why do people like you listen to me? You realized everything I say is a load of bullshit?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama
We HAVE educated ourselves....which is why we're wondering where you are getting this shit from. This has nothing to do with flag waving or anything else btw. Have you noticed you are not getting any backup even from the most rabid America haters in the pit? This should tell you something..

edit- who the fuck is Doug Long...one of your alter egos?

Ad hominem, Appeal to popularity... You really don't have a fucking clue do you?

You people are beyond ignorant. You start with the assumption that your country is perfect and then try and warp reality around that.
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Old 05-09-2005, 10:19 AM Carl Rove is offline  
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TheMorlock
Contrary to my previous title I never fucked Inf's mother
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmuck
Ad hominem, Appeal to popularity... You really don't have a fucking clue do you?

You people are beyond ignorant. You start with the assumption that your country is perfect and then try and warp reality around that.

Ad hominem, Appeal to stupidity
We start with no assumptions. Then you come in and proove you are a cluless moron. No assumptions needed.
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Old 05-09-2005, 11:33 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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ViriiK
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From what I'm reading so far.. Schmuck was claiming that the we dropped the bombs early to prevent the Soviet's from getting Japan. Well apparently he's missing a crucial fact of history. At the Yalta Conference, it was agreed by the Soviet Union, United States, & United Kingdom that the Soviet would intervene 3 months after the German Surrender which they didn't declare war until August 1945.
Quote:
The Soviets agreed to intervene in the war with Japan within three months of the German surrender. In return they would be given the Sakhalin and Kurile Islands and pre-eminent interests over Port Arthur and Darien (Dalian) and its rail connections.
However, the betrayal of the Soviet's part on the Yalta Conference Agreement didn't appear far down the road in the late 40's.

As everyone knows, Schmuck already goes into the "Dumb as a rock" category.
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Last edited by ViriiK; 05-09-2005 at 02:15 PM..
Old 05-09-2005, 02:12 PM ViriiK is offline  
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Carl Rove
Schmuck
Why do people like you listen to me? You realized everything I say is a load of bullshit?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViriiK
From what I'm reading so far.. Schmuck was claiming that the we dropped the bombs early to prevent the Soviet's from getting Japan. Well apparently he's missing a crucial fact of history. At the Yalta Conference, it was agreed by the Soviet Union, United States, & United Kingdom that the Soviet would intervene 3 months after the German Surrender which they didn't declare war until August 1945.
However, the betrayal of the Soviet's part on the Yalta Conference Agreement didn't appear far down the road in the late 40's.

As everyone knows, Schmuck already goes into the "Dumb as a rock" category.

LMAO fucking straw man, I never claimed any such thing.

I stated the indisputable fact that the main motive in dropping the bomb was intimidating the Soviets.
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Old 05-09-2005, 03:36 PM Carl Rove is offline  
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ViriiK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmuck
LMAO fucking straw man, I never claimed any such thing.

I stated the indisputable fact that the main motive in dropping the bomb was intimidating the Soviets.
Actually you made that assertion. Try again Communist..

Besides, what facts? You never prove facts at all.. Just shit out of your ass going "OMG, I'm an intellectual communist that everything comes out of my mouth is true and anything out of the Fascist Murderers are false!"

I got some good news today for you. More than a hundred of your hero's were killed today.
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Last edited by ViriiK; 05-09-2005 at 03:54 PM..
Old 05-09-2005, 03:46 PM ViriiK is offline  
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Carl Rove
Schmuck
Why do people like you listen to me? You realized everything I say is a load of bullshit?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViriiK
Actually you made that assertion. Try again Communist..

Besides, what facts? You never prove facts at all.. Just shit out of your ass going "OMG, I'm an intellectual communist that everything comes out of my mouth is true and anything out of the Fascist Murderers are false!"

I got some good news today for you. More than a hundred of your hero's were killed today.

You obviously weren't listening to what I said

If you are so good at producing evidence, find evidence that I 'made that assertion' you dickless impurity in the gene pool.
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Old 05-09-2005, 04:03 PM Carl Rove is offline  
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ViriiK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmuck
You obviously weren't listening to what I said

If you are so good at producing evidence, find evidence that I 'made that assertion' you dickless impurity in the gene pool.
RTFT Communist..

Meanwhile I stand correct with my point

"OMG, I'm an intellectual communist that everything comes out of my mouth is true and anything out of the Fascist Murderers are false!"
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Last edited by ViriiK; 05-09-2005 at 04:21 PM..
Old 05-09-2005, 04:19 PM ViriiK is offline  
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Carl Rove
Schmuck
Why do people like you listen to me? You realized everything I say is a load of bullshit?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViriiK
RTFT Communist..

Meanwhile I stand correct with my point

"OMG, I'm an intellectual communist that everything comes out of my mouth is true and anything out of the Fascist Murderers are false!"

You are the one who hasn't read the thread. You claim I said something which I have not said - and then when challenged to provide evidence you just fall back on petty insults. You are a total OMGOMGOMGOMG.
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Old 05-10-2005, 01:10 AM Carl Rove is offline  
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Sanchi
 
Schmuck, why was there an attempted coup on the Emperor after he announced the surender?
Old 05-10-2005, 01:42 AM Sanchi is offline  
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