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prometheum
 
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boeing unveils the newest version of the f-15

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/...90317a_nr.html

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ST. LOUIS, March 17, 2009 -- The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] today in St. Louis unveiled the F-15 Silent Eagle (F-15SE), a new F-15 configuration designed to meet the future needs of international customers.

"The F-15 Silent Eagle is designed to meet our international customers' anticipated need for cost-effective stealth technologies, as well as for large and diverse weapons payloads," said Mark Bass, F-15 Program vice president for Boeing. "The innovative Silent Eagle is a balanced, affordable approach designed to meet future survivability needs."

Improvements in stealth include coatings and treatments on the aircraft. With the added advantage of redesigned conformal fuel tanks (CFTs) that allow for internal weapons carriage, the Silent Eagle becomes a very attractive fighter for Boeing's international customers.

Depending on the specific mission, the customer can use the CFTs that are designed for internal carriage or change back to the traditional CFTs for optimum fuel capacity and external weapons carriage. The Silent Eagle will be able to internally carry air-to-air missiles such as the AIM-9 and AIM-120 and air-to-ground weapons such as the Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) and Small Diameter Bomb (SDB). The standard weapons load used on current versions of the F-15 is available with the traditional CFTs installed.

The aircraft's canted vertical tails improve aerodynamic efficiency, provide lift, and reduce airframe weight. Another aerodynamic improvement is the Digital Flight Control System, which improves the aircraft's reliability and reduces airframe weight.

Survivability improvements include a BAES Digital Electronic Warfare System (DEWS) working in concert with the Raytheon Advanced Electronic Scanning Array (AESA) radar.

Boeing has completed a conceptual prototype of the CFT internal-carriage concept, and plans to flight-test a prototype by the first quarter of 2010, including a live missile launch.

The design, development, and test of this internal carriage system are available as a collaborative project with an international aerospace partner.
as the article says its geared towards international buyers. the us air force is throwing all of its eggs in the f-22 and UAVs. wonder how much fuel capacity it loses with those cft's...i think the term cft is now a misnomer...it should be conformal weapons bay

and who's gonna be the first buyer? israel?
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:36 PM prometheum is offline  
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It honestly looks worthless. By the looks of it the "CFT" could only carry four missiles; probably only 2 aim-9's and 2 aim-120's. By comparison, the internal load of an F-35 (which will probably cost the same or less than an F-15 especially when maintenance costs are added) could carry the same or add air to ground munitions internally. I doubt you could shove a JDAM in there never mind if the F-15SE is anywhere near stealthy than either the F-35 or F-22. Maybe on par with a Super Hornet. The F-15 is a good platform but it wasn't designed from the ground up to be a stealth aircraft. For the money and the performance it doesn't look worth it. There are other proven solutions that aren't as "balanced" as to be the jack of all trades but the master of none.
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:51 PM Captain Moosehead is offline  
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Gearhead
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I'll bet you Canada will buy a few of those. Our CF18s are getting a little old, but we can still fly the hell out of them!
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:52 PM Gearhead is offline  
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I'll bet you Canada will buy a few of those. Our CF18s are getting a little old, but we can still fly the hell out of them!

Why not buy Super Hornets if you (Canada...eh) are looking for a 4.5 gen aircraft? If I were some nation on good terms with the U.S. I'd look choose an F-18 E/F over just about everything in it's class, even over the Eurofighter in terms of cost and track record.
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:57 PM Captain Moosehead is offline  
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Why not buy Super Hornets if you (Canada...eh) are looking for a 4.5 gen aircraft? If I were some nation on good terms with the U.S. I'd look choose an F-18 E/F over just about everything in it's class, even over the Eurofighter in terms of cost and track record.



I dunno, email them and ask?

canada@canada.gc.ca
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:58 PM Gearhead is offline  
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I dunno, email them and ask?

canada@canada.gc.ca

I shall. I hear everything is more efficient slightly up north.
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:59 PM Captain Moosehead is offline  
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I shall. I hear everything is more efficient slightly up north.


It's a wonderful place
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Old 03-24-2009, 12:03 AM Gearhead is offline  
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It's a wonderful place

I know; especially the parts that you guys copied down here. Good call on not copying Detroit though.
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Old 03-24-2009, 12:16 AM Captain Moosehead is offline  
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It honestly looks worthless. By the looks of it the "CFT" could only carry four missiles; probably only 2 aim-9's and 2 aim-120's. By comparison, the internal load of an F-35 (which will probably cost the same or less than an F-15 especially when maintenance costs are added) could carry the same or add air to ground munitions internally. I doubt you could shove a JDAM in there never mind if the F-15SE is anywhere near stealthy than either the F-35 or F-22. Maybe on par with a Super Hornet. The F-15 is a good platform but it wasn't designed from the ground up to be a stealth aircraft. For the money and the performance it doesn't look worth it. There are other proven solutions that aren't as "balanced" as to be the jack of all trades but the master of none.

i'd like to see how much an f-35 is really going to end up costing; i'm thinking somewhere between 60 and 80 million when its all said and done...in which case the f-15se would be a pretty good buy if they can keep it under 50 million. jdams really aren't that large i can easily see it fitting inside the aim 120 doors.
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Old 03-24-2009, 02:27 PM prometheum is offline  
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i'd like to see how much an f-35 is really going to end up costing; i'm thinking somewhere between 60 and 80 million when its all said and done...in which case the f-15se would be a pretty good buy if they can keep it under 50 million. jdams really aren't that large i can easily see it fitting inside the aim 120 doors.

I serious doubt an F-15SE will be under 50 million. What are Strike Eagles going for now a days? 80-100 million to other nations (since I don't think we have bought on in a while)? Tack on the "stealth", that is sure to be only Super Hornet or Eurofighter quality, and I can see the price jumping up to 100 million. An F-18 E/F is easily less than that. It just seems like the unwanted middle child of everything. It's not the cheapest, it's not the stealthiest, and it doesn't carry the most ordinance (if it wants to be stealthy).
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Old 03-24-2009, 02:40 PM Captain Moosehead is offline  
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Why not buy Super Hornets if you (Canada...eh) are looking for a 4.5 gen aircraft? If I were some nation on good terms with the U.S. I'd look choose an F-18 E/F over just about everything in it's class, even over the Eurofighter in terms of cost and track record.
why not buy some variant of the f-15e (f-15 e, e+, se)? only drawback imo is its a 2 seater aircraft and no quite as maneuverable as the superhornet. with the latest upgrades it has all the capabilities as the f-18e/f, plus longer range and a larger payload capacity.
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Old 03-24-2009, 03:24 PM prometheum is offline  
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I serious doubt an F-15SE will be under 50 million. What are Strike Eagles going for now a days? 80-100 million to other nations (since I don't think we have bought on in a while)? Tack on the "stealth", that is sure to be only Super Hornet or Eurofighter quality, and I can see the price jumping up to 100 million. An F-18 E/F is easily less than that. It just seems like the unwanted middle child of everything. It's not the cheapest, it's not the stealthiest, and it doesn't carry the most ordinance (if it wants to be stealthy).
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...uis%20Facility

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Jones says the cost of a new-build F-15 Silent Eagle is about $100 million, including spares and support for the RCS-reducing material. Though Boeing hasn't released the price of the F-15SGs sold to Singapore, officials say the cost is similar to that of the Silent Eagle. It is unclear how this compares with the price of a Joint Strike Fighter. The JSF cost is estimated to be about $70-80 million in Fiscal 2014 dollars.
interesting...singapore paid a lot more than i expected and that was back in 05. the last f-15e's the us purchased was in fiscal year 03.

its not the cheapest but its got a much larger payload capacity than the f-18 and eurofighter...and with internal weapons bays its probably stealthier than an f-18 with no internal weapons bays...i would venture to say with a comparable load out the f-15se is stealthier than an f-18.
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Old 03-24-2009, 03:38 PM prometheum is offline  
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why not buy some variant of the f-15e (f-15 e, e+, se)? only drawback imo is its a 2 seater aircraft and no quite as maneuverable as the superhornet. with the latest upgrades it has all the capabilities as the f-18e/f, plus longer range and a larger payload capacity.

The F-18F is a two seater and supplanted the Tomcat. The F-15E is a fine plane but if we talk about payload for the SE, and if you wanted benefit from shelling out the extra 20 million or something for the stealth SE, then you're rather limited. All I am saying is that any nation looking for a stealth aircraft would be more inclined to purchase the F-35, which has a similar performance, again if stealth is the main priority. Or if they wanted the full capability of a Strike Eagle, why not just buy a Strike Eagle, or a semi stealthy Super Hornet or Eurofighter (or I suppose a Rafael - France might as well give them away as free demo fighters). The SE just looks like a waste of money.
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Old 03-24-2009, 04:01 PM Captain Moosehead is offline  
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its not the cheapest but its got a much larger payload capacity than the f-18 and eurofighter...and with internal weapons bays its probably stealthier than an f-18 with no internal weapons bays...i would venture to say with a comparable load out the f-15se is stealthier than an f-18.

I'll give you that; that a F-15SE carrying two AIM-9's and two AIM-120's would be more stealthy than a Super Hornet with the same load out but an F-35 which would be comparable in cost or cheaper than an SE would be even better.

I just realized how even more ridiculous the introduction of the F-15SE is. Both it and the F-18 are made by Boeing. Assuming they are not seeking to compete against themselves I'd venture to say that the F-15SE is designed to compete against the F-35 in which case I don't know how many nations who would be ineligible for an F-35 that wouldn't also be ineligible for an F-15SE. Congress should just let the F-22 flood the market in Japan and Australia and keep production lines open.
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Old 03-24-2009, 04:09 PM Captain Moosehead is offline  
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I'll give you that; that a F-15SE carrying two AIM-9's and two AIM-120's would be more stealthy than a Super Hornet with the same load out but an F-35 which would be comparable in cost or cheaper than an SE would be even better.

I just realized how even more ridiculous the introduction of the F-15SE is. Both it and the F-18 are made by Boeing. Assuming they are not seeking to compete against themselves I'd venture to say that the F-15SE is designed to compete against the F-35 in which case I don't know how many nations who would be ineligible for an F-35 that wouldn't also be ineligible for an F-15SE. Congress should just let the F-22 flood the market in Japan and Australia and keep production lines open.

i don't think they are trying to compete with themselves here, they are trying to keep f-15 sales going a little bit longer by: 1 getting current f-15e customers to buy new airframes, and 2 giving them the option to just buy a cft kit to upgrade their current f-15s. current f-15 customers are more likely to go with another variant of the f-15 because their pilots and maintenance crews are already trained on how to operate and maintain the f-15 and all the support equipment is already in place for the f-15.

according to wikipedia (lol wikipedia) korea spent 100 million a pop for their order of f-15's which is a whole lot more than i expected while the usaf just spent 30 million a piece. that makes me wonder how much international sales of the superhornet are going to cost...or how much a foreign version of the f-35 is going to cost. also the f-35 is still far from going into production
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Old 03-24-2009, 04:52 PM prometheum is offline  
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