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g0rg0n
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caelum View Post
I kind of find it naive that you would think that with all law and all society broken down that people will be nice and all hand shakingly welcoming.

I'm not saying I'll start some shit, but what I am saying is that if I were to walk from point A to point B, I'm going to carry a weapon to draw down on someone. People are not to be trusted. Whats the saying, locks keep honest people honest. I feel laws are the same way. Without them, most people will do whatever they can for self preservation

If you had all the drinking water in the world in your back yard, do you really think that everyone that comes to your door is going to ask politely for something to drink?
I will. But you're not my neighbor and I have to get to you and once I get there you might need me to help protect your water in exchange for a shower once a month.

Plus, SHTF also can mean zombies right cause those guys like hide in closets. No bolt action for me for house clearing
I see your point and maybe I am naive or maybe I'm used to being isolated given that I live in a pretty isolated area, but I do believe people are generally good and don't need laws to keep them that way.
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Old 03-31-2009, 06:58 PM g0rg0n is offline  
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mofugger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g0rg0n View Post
I see your point and maybe I am naive or maybe I'm used to being isolated given that I live in a pretty isolated area, but I do believe people are generally good and don't need laws to keep them that way.


I've seen this shit happen. SHTF scenarios (being from Florida, it's mostly hurricanes) bring out the worst in people. Then again, they also bring out the best in other people as well.
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Old 04-01-2009, 12:24 PM mofugger is offline  
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jaegertech
 
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I find it really interesting that you assume that SHTF automatically means you're going to be in a fire fight with someone.

The point is to know what you will do in the worst possible situation. If you plan and are prepared to deal with a firefight that never happens, you've wasted a bit of time and money. If you haven't planned to deal with the firefight that you end up in, welcome to fuckedville.
Old 04-01-2009, 04:22 PM jaegertech is offline  
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Originally Posted by g0rg0n View Post
I see your point and maybe I am naive or maybe I'm used to being isolated given that I live in a pretty isolated area, but I do believe people are generally good and don't need laws to keep them that way.

There is a reason that a pretty standard theme in SHTF scenarios is "get out of the cities." Most people would behave even without a constant law enforcement presence, but lets play with a hypothetical. Lets assume that 1% of the population can't be trusted. For Idaho, that means around 13,000 assholes spread throughout the state; if you are rural enough, you might never even run into one. Between Hillsborough and Pinellas counties, I'd have 20,000 assholes within 30 miles. Taking the exact same asshole rate, I'd have a much higher chance of having a problem then you, and the reality is that major population centers have much higher asshole rates.
Old 04-01-2009, 04:36 PM jaegertech is offline  
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#49  

The Unflushable Turd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaegertech View Post
There is a reason that a pretty standard theme in SHTF scenarios is "get out of the cities." Most people would behave even without a constant law enforcement presence, but lets play with a hypothetical. Lets assume that 1% of the population can't be trusted. For Idaho, that means around 13,000 assholes spread throughout the state; if you are rural enough, you might never even run into one. Between Hillsborough and Pinellas counties, I'd have 20,000 assholes within 30 miles. Taking the exact same asshole rate, I'd have a much higher chance of having a problem then you, and the reality is that major population centers have much higher asshole rates.

Try living in NY. This is why i need to GTFO of NY before the SHTF in 2012.
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Old 04-01-2009, 05:50 PM The Unflushable Turd is offline  
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Old 04-01-2009, 10:14 PM monkey-boy is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaegertech View Post
There is a reason that a pretty standard theme in SHTF scenarios is "get out of the cities." Most people would behave even without a constant law enforcement presence, but lets play with a hypothetical. Lets assume that 1% of the population can't be trusted. For Idaho, that means around 13,000 assholes spread throughout the state; if you are rural enough, you might never even run into one. Between Hillsborough and Pinellas counties, I'd have 20,000 assholes within 30 miles. Taking the exact same asshole rate, I'd have a much higher chance of having a problem then you, and the reality is that major population centers have much higher asshole rates.

You're putting entirely too much faith in humans. Once people realize that the police are incapable of handling whatever SHTF scenario that you're thinking, civil order will break down overnight. 1% is entirely too conservative. You would be lucky if even half of the people still believed in the rule of law when the police and government had failed.

Our race can't even handle disasters that are seasonal and known to be coming with any sort of order. What makes you think that the end of our society would go down any better?
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Old 04-01-2009, 11:01 PM WickedAngel is offline  
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mofugger
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Originally Posted by monkey-boy View Post
NEITHER

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well if you don't have one, yet have an AR and an AK to chose from, it kinda limits your options.
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Old 04-01-2009, 11:27 PM mofugger is offline  
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#53  

CommiePunk
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i love bolt action rifles, but in a shootout, they are the last thing i would want. I'd rather have an AR and a 20 or 30 round mag than a bolt action with a box magazine with a what, 5 round capacity?
Old 04-02-2009, 04:23 AM CommiePunk is offline  
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#54  

drx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaegertech View Post
There is a reason that a pretty standard theme in SHTF scenarios is "get out of the cities." Most people would behave even without a constant law enforcement presence, but lets play with a hypothetical. Lets assume that 1% of the population can't be trusted. For Idaho, that means around 13,000 assholes spread throughout the state; if you are rural enough, you might never even run into one. Between Hillsborough and Pinellas counties, I'd have 20,000 assholes within 30 miles. Taking the exact same asshole rate, I'd have a much higher chance of having a problem then you, and the reality is that major population centers have much higher asshole rates.

Way to conservative an estimate. Just look at a riot scenario. Within minutes, once people see that police have lost control, they start looting stores. And that's not even out of necessity, that's just because. Now imagine a bunch of hungry people looking for food.
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:48 AM drx is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedAngel View Post
You're putting entirely too much faith in humans. Once people realize that the police are incapable of handling whatever SHTF scenario that you're thinking, civil order will break down overnight. 1% is entirely too conservative. You would be lucky if even half of the people still believed in the rule of law when the police and government had failed.

Our race can't even handle disasters that are seasonal and known to be coming with any sort of order. What makes you think that the end of our society would go down any better?

This man speaks with truth and realism. Wanna be on my SHTF team?
Old 04-02-2009, 10:10 AM vile1 is offline  
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#56  

00 Buck
 
I have both.

A good AR is best for me.

The
accuracy
ergonomics
modurality
weight

combine to enhance and facilitate fast and effective exchanges of lead. It feels like cheating in weapon manipulations compared to an AK's crappy human engineering. I would think that ease of manipulation is a good thing while crapping ones pants!

On baddies, most AR rounds do better than 7.62x39 anyway. Fragmentation vs. just poking through generally. Only in penetrating barriers is the AK better.

If my AR can go 1,200+ rounds without cleaning (and did), what more can I ask for? I'll never wait that long to clean it when I am in a SHTF situation, and I don't flop around in the mud with the ejection port open like a .

Anybody catch one of the previous S.W.A.T magazines (March issue??), where the tactical response guys were running intense drills in the wet mud? AK's didn't do as well as I thought...

Solution: AR as my primary in a 2-point sling and the AK strapped on my back for vehicles/walls, back-up, ammo stealing, etc..

I ain't fighting armed looters and local up&coming warlords (total collapse) with only a stinkin bolt action. What is this, WWII?

What's with the sub-forum change? Retards the focus of an already broad range of subjects (all weapons) and makes us look like tin-foil hat types. Stupid as hell.
Old 04-02-2009, 03:57 PM 00 Buck is offline  
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jaegertech
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedAngel View Post
You're putting entirely too much faith in humans. Once people realize that the police are incapable of handling whatever SHTF scenario that you're thinking, civil order will break down overnight. 1% is entirely too conservative. You would be lucky if even half of the people still believed in the rule of law when the police and government had failed.

Our race can't even handle disasters that are seasonal and known to be coming with any sort of order. What makes you think that the end of our society would go down any better?

I'm not saying I believe only 1% of the population is untrustworthy; I'm saying that even with an unrealistically low percentage of assholes, you are dealing with a large number of them in an urban/suburban SHTF situation.

I personally believe the percentage is probably close to 1% in some rural/small communities, but I also believe the percentage rises dramatically the closer you get to a major population center. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the shittier parts of the country were majority asshole.
Old 04-02-2009, 04:05 PM jaegertech is offline  
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WickedAngel
 
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Originally Posted by vile1 View Post
This man speaks with truth and realism. Wanna be on my SHTF team?

I'm not entirely sure that I would retain the moral fiber that would make me an enticing candidate for such a team of shit truly hit the fan.

I feel like I would be a bad person in a world without repercussions.
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Old 04-06-2009, 10:09 PM WickedAngel is offline  
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#59  

Conna
 
I don't know if it counts since it's an AK variant, but I too would get the RK 95, because it's the one I know how to use and maintain. Reliability and power of the AK, but with superior quality and precision. Preferably throw in an ACOG or a night vision scope too.




Barring that, I'd probably want the AK for the same reason: easy to use and clean (not saying the AR is necessarily difficult though). Now if I had some time to get acquinted first, would be a whole different story. But I wouldn't want to be learning how to use something when I might need it at any moment.
Old 04-12-2009, 03:44 PM Conna is offline  
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